Author Topic: John Knapper/Napper 1789 CONFIRMED THANK YOU  (Read 11538 times)

Offline wendy47

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John Knapper/Napper 1789 CONFIRMED THANK YOU
« on: Friday 05 September 08 14:01 BST (UK) »
Hi everyone

I am looking for the marriage of John Napper to an Elizabeth.

He was born in Bosbury 1789 & she was born either in  Little Cowerne 1851 Census, Much Cowerne 1861 Census or Stoke Lacy 1871 Census in abt 1791

They both moved to Ledbury sometime before the 1821 & probably married there.

She is roughly the same age in the 1841 Census but is 8 years younger in the 1871 Census.

Eldest child I have is Mary Napper b about 1821 b Ledbury m Henry Thompson 1844 Ledbury

John's parents were John Knapper & Hannah Rawlins m 1785 Munsley

Any help how to progress with this branch of my family will be much appreciated.

Thank you
Wendy47
VEAL, PRICE, STURGE, HOLDER, BELLET, DREW, TAYLOR, HALES/GOUGH, PRICE, COOK, BURNELL, HOLBIN, MERRY, GUNNING, WOOD, STOCK, GULLOCK, GWILLYM Som/Glos
COTTERELL, NAPPER, NASH, FLEETWOOD, HANDLEY, COLLINS, MEREDITH, HODGES, MESSIDER, SMALLRIDGE, BACHE, ELLSMORE Hfs
NASH, TYLER Warks, Kent
ADMONS Berks
CROWE, REYNOLDS, Suff
KITCHEN Nlk
Abram C[H]ARLSON Sweden/Ldn
COX, WAYLAND, LINE Wilts
STILES, DORTON, GOFFE, BLY Ldn
OSMOND Hants
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Offline Daisyroot

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Re: John Knapper/Napper 1789
« Reply #1 on: Saturday 27 September 08 09:04 BST (UK) »
Hi,
Maybe you have found this by now but i thought i'd have a look anyway and i can only see one marriage with the names you mentioned...
John Napper and Elizabeth Bruton..Stoke Lacey..27th July 1814..
There was a note included at the end of the information.. "+ Ullingswick" which means that one of them was from Ullingswick...on this particular disc they use = and + as shortened versions of male and female but,shame on me,i can't remember which way round it is!
Hope it was of some help anyway..Flo'
All census information is Crown Copyright and from  http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/<br /><br />

Offline wendy47

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Re: John Knapper/Napper 1789
« Reply #2 on: Saturday 27 September 08 11:31 BST (UK) »
Hi Flo

No I haven't any info at all so I'm so pleased to hear from you. It looks promising & I must delve some more now I have some idea where to look. Seems their ages could be right too.


Just checked on IGI and John Napper is under the name John Happer. No wonder I couldn't find it.
Thank you for replying

Regards
Wendy47
VEAL, PRICE, STURGE, HOLDER, BELLET, DREW, TAYLOR, HALES/GOUGH, PRICE, COOK, BURNELL, HOLBIN, MERRY, GUNNING, WOOD, STOCK, GULLOCK, GWILLYM Som/Glos
COTTERELL, NAPPER, NASH, FLEETWOOD, HANDLEY, COLLINS, MEREDITH, HODGES, MESSIDER, SMALLRIDGE, BACHE, ELLSMORE Hfs
NASH, TYLER Warks, Kent
ADMONS Berks
CROWE, REYNOLDS, Suff
KITCHEN Nlk
Abram C[H]ARLSON Sweden/Ldn
COX, WAYLAND, LINE Wilts
STILES, DORTON, GOFFE, BLY Ldn
OSMOND Hants
All UK census information Crown Copyright, www.nationalarchives.gov

Offline nettie57

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Re: John Knapper/Napper 1789
« Reply #3 on: Sunday 27 September 09 17:06 BST (UK) »
hi,
     i have only just joined rootschat and found your query RE: john Napper and Elizabeth Bruton, i too had been looking for this marriage for some while and only found it on the I.G.I about 2 weeks ago.
    Their son John born 1825 Ledbury,is my gt.gt. grandfather. Are we related?                                                        
    I have a couple of "brick" walls ! I have been unable to find a marriage for John Napper 1825 to Catherine Dugard, their 1st child Elizabeth was born c. 1873.
    I am also so far unable to find a birth for Martha Napper Ward born c. 1870 b'ham.
on the 1871 census she is stated as niece to head and on the 1881 census she is daughter! also i believe that John is down as father on her marriage cert. although i have not seen this myself, another member of the family has.
   I did find a marriage for Johns sister Elizabeth, to David Ward in Aston 1861, with the births of David 1867, Ada 1868 and Caroline 1870. but no Martha, unless Martha is actually Caroline as the year of birth is correct?!
                         Best regards
                                             Annette (nettie57)
Napper,Jones, Hill, Phillips, Perry, Norman, Chater, Jacobs, Herefordshire.
Smith, Shirley, Berry, Tilly, Chater, Masters,  Warwickshire.
Morris, Shropshire.
Smith, Dugard, Hill, Green, Napper, Jacobs, Worcestershire.


Offline wendy47

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Re: John Knapper/Napper 1789
« Reply #4 on: Monday 28 September 09 08:43 BST (UK) »
Hi Annette

Welcome to Rootschat.

Yes we are related.

Your John Napper 1825 was the brother of my Eliza Napper b 1823 Ledbury who married Samuel Sturge in 1840 Ledbury.

I have just got back from a visit to Bromyard researching the {K}Nappers and have got a copy of a marriage of John Napper of Ullingswick to Elizabeth Bruton.

I also have a copy of the banns & marriage of Elizabeth Bruton's parents.

Until you have made 3 posts, we cannot send Personal Messages.

I will wait until we can send e-mails privately, as you can't post email addresses on here. I can send copies and everything I have managed to find out, which isn't much at present as the main records are in Worcester I believe.

I took photo's of the churches as well.

Hope to hear from you soon

Wendy ;D ;D ;D
VEAL, PRICE, STURGE, HOLDER, BELLET, DREW, TAYLOR, HALES/GOUGH, PRICE, COOK, BURNELL, HOLBIN, MERRY, GUNNING, WOOD, STOCK, GULLOCK, GWILLYM Som/Glos
COTTERELL, NAPPER, NASH, FLEETWOOD, HANDLEY, COLLINS, MEREDITH, HODGES, MESSIDER, SMALLRIDGE, BACHE, ELLSMORE Hfs
NASH, TYLER Warks, Kent
ADMONS Berks
CROWE, REYNOLDS, Suff
KITCHEN Nlk
Abram C[H]ARLSON Sweden/Ldn
COX, WAYLAND, LINE Wilts
STILES, DORTON, GOFFE, BLY Ldn
OSMOND Hants
All UK census information Crown Copyright, www.nationalarchives.gov

Offline wendy47

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Re: John Knapper/Napper 1789
« Reply #5 on: Monday 28 September 09 10:40 BST (UK) »
Hi Annette

I've just been having a look at your queries.

Not found much yet but I noticed my 2 X Gt Grandfather John Sturge is a nephew staying with John & Martha Napper at Withington in the 1861 Census.
RG9 Piece 1817 Folio 166 Page 17

In the 1851 Census he is a visitor and John & Martha are also there at John & Elizabeth Napper's in Ledbury.
HO107 Piece 1975 Folio 239 Page 20

This ties my family in with yours.

There are a lot of Martha's in the family and at 58, Martha is likely to be too old to be the mother of Martha aged 1 in the 1871 Census.
You mentioned Caroline but she is with David and Elizabeth Ward in the 1871 Census.

Martha Napper Ward could have been registered as Martha Napper and then Ward added as a surname later.

The Martha in later censuses is the correct age but it seems she is down as Napper and born in Herefordshire. The 1871 Census maybe an error on the part of the enumerator. Maybe she was John & Martha's Ward.

Clutching at straws here.

There is this birth, which covers Birmingham and she is about the right age as she would still be 1 in the 1871 Census.

Births Dec 1868
WARD    Martha    Aston    6d    344

I presume you have the following death which may be Martha

Deaths Jun 1873  
Napper    Martha    64    Ledbury    6a   284

Wendy ;D ;D
VEAL, PRICE, STURGE, HOLDER, BELLET, DREW, TAYLOR, HALES/GOUGH, PRICE, COOK, BURNELL, HOLBIN, MERRY, GUNNING, WOOD, STOCK, GULLOCK, GWILLYM Som/Glos
COTTERELL, NAPPER, NASH, FLEETWOOD, HANDLEY, COLLINS, MEREDITH, HODGES, MESSIDER, SMALLRIDGE, BACHE, ELLSMORE Hfs
NASH, TYLER Warks, Kent
ADMONS Berks
CROWE, REYNOLDS, Suff
KITCHEN Nlk
Abram C[H]ARLSON Sweden/Ldn
COX, WAYLAND, LINE Wilts
STILES, DORTON, GOFFE, BLY Ldn
OSMOND Hants
All UK census information Crown Copyright, www.nationalarchives.gov

Offline wendy47

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Re: John Knapper/Napper 1789
« Reply #6 on: Monday 28 September 09 14:02 BST (UK) »
Hi Annette

I have been checking births of David and Elizabeth Ward's children and there is a death

Deaths Dec 1874
WARD    Caroline aged 4   Aston    6d    207

I couldn't see her with the family or with anyone else in 1881.

Wendy :)
VEAL, PRICE, STURGE, HOLDER, BELLET, DREW, TAYLOR, HALES/GOUGH, PRICE, COOK, BURNELL, HOLBIN, MERRY, GUNNING, WOOD, STOCK, GULLOCK, GWILLYM Som/Glos
COTTERELL, NAPPER, NASH, FLEETWOOD, HANDLEY, COLLINS, MEREDITH, HODGES, MESSIDER, SMALLRIDGE, BACHE, ELLSMORE Hfs
NASH, TYLER Warks, Kent
ADMONS Berks
CROWE, REYNOLDS, Suff
KITCHEN Nlk
Abram C[H]ARLSON Sweden/Ldn
COX, WAYLAND, LINE Wilts
STILES, DORTON, GOFFE, BLY Ldn
OSMOND Hants
All UK census information Crown Copyright, www.nationalarchives.gov

Offline nettie57

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Re: John Knapper/Napper 1789
« Reply #7 on: Tuesday 29 September 09 13:01 BST (UK) »
Hi Wendy
thanks for your reply, yes i have the death of Martha in 1873 Johns wife, john had a daughter Elizabeth in 1874 with Catherine dugard which was quick work!!!!
i missed the death of Caroline in Aston in 1874,
 i did wonder if Martha was Catherine's daughter at first but she was not in the household in 1871 and i did a quick check to see if she was in the area but with no luck!
i did speak to an old member of the family before she died in 2006, who was the daughter of Catherine 1881,daughter of John and Catherine who told me that her mother referred to Martha as a sort of half sister, but she didn't know much except that she was from B'ham! maybe i will have to get the birth cert. for the Martha ward born in Aston in 1868 and see if thats the one!
as you said Martha would have been too old to have been the mother.
 I also wondered if Martha was John and marthas "ward" rather than it being her surname but when i found the marriage of Elizabeth to David ward, felt there maybe some connection there.
i have been researching the nappers for a while now, with the help of a friend who is far more experienced than i,! but i am now trying to go it alone..but i am new to this form of communication, so you will have to bear with me till i get the hang of it..!
i would like a copy of the marriage of John and Elizabeth and her parents as i have not got anything about them at all yet. i have a far amount of info re; the nappers though, so if i have anything of interest to you i will gladly pass it on. when i have found out how to do this of course! :)
I have had contact from 2 others of the family both descended from John and Catherine with whom i have exchanged info, but this was done through my friend as i didn't have a computer at the time!! he has most of my tree stored on his at the moment!!
hope to here from you soon.
regards Annette.
Napper,Jones, Hill, Phillips, Perry, Norman, Chater, Jacobs, Herefordshire.
Smith, Shirley, Berry, Tilly, Chater, Masters,  Warwickshire.
Morris, Shropshire.
Smith, Dugard, Hill, Green, Napper, Jacobs, Worcestershire.

Offline wendy47

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Re: John Knapper/Napper 1789
« Reply #8 on: Tuesday 29 September 09 14:06 BST (UK) »
Hi Annette

I have just really started looking at the Nappers seriously although I had John Napper 1789 on Eliza's wedding certificate, which I got back in the 1980's. I was following the Sturge line as it was my maiden name. Then we had a break from Family History and started again when we retired about 3 years ago.

I did wonder if John & Catherine were married before Elizabeth's birth. As you say it was a quick turnaround.

As you can't find the marriage, have you looked later. One set of my great grandparents married after having 3 children and another over 10 years after the last of family was born. She was described as a Kept Mistress on most of the Censuses. Makes the research more interesting.

You have one more post to do and then I can send info via Personal mail. Some of the info was on this post anyway. It was given by other very helpful Rootschatters. I will certainly pass any info on. If you have an email address I can send the actual photos of the documents via an attachment.


Wendy ;D


VEAL, PRICE, STURGE, HOLDER, BELLET, DREW, TAYLOR, HALES/GOUGH, PRICE, COOK, BURNELL, HOLBIN, MERRY, GUNNING, WOOD, STOCK, GULLOCK, GWILLYM Som/Glos
COTTERELL, NAPPER, NASH, FLEETWOOD, HANDLEY, COLLINS, MEREDITH, HODGES, MESSIDER, SMALLRIDGE, BACHE, ELLSMORE Hfs
NASH, TYLER Warks, Kent
ADMONS Berks
CROWE, REYNOLDS, Suff
KITCHEN Nlk
Abram C[H]ARLSON Sweden/Ldn
COX, WAYLAND, LINE Wilts
STILES, DORTON, GOFFE, BLY Ldn
OSMOND Hants
All UK census information Crown Copyright, www.nationalarchives.gov