Author Topic: Advice sought on Muller orphanages  (Read 73669 times)

Offline Aks

  • RootsChat Senior
  • ****
  • Posts: 275
  • Photo - Annie Pomeroy
    • View Profile
Advice sought on Muller orphanages
« on: Monday 08 September 08 17:18 BST (UK) »
I spent a considerable amount of time tracking down my great grandmother on the 1861 census (at which point she had lost both parents), and eventually came up with "M S F, age 9, born abt 1852, in Paignton Devon, residing in the New Orphan House Number 2 in Clifton, Bristol St James and St Paul, Gloucestershire. Her name was Martha Susanna Froude born 4/2/1852 from this area of Devon and it seems that the orphans are all listed under their initials.

I thought this was a fairly reasonable identification, especially given some additional indications such as the fact that her place of birth on the 1871 census is given as Bristol, an anomaly which would be explained by her being in the orphanage in Bristol from the age of 9 or earlier. However when I contacted the George Muller foundation which ran these orphanages, they told me that she definitely was not there as she was not in their records.   

Obviously, this is disappointing and, while I do not doubt their good faith and am grateful for their looking this up, I do not see how they could be so certain. I wonder if she might have been there and her name wrongly transcribed in their records.  I'm just wondering if anyone has any previous experience checking records with the Muller foundation, an opinion on this matter, or any suggestions as to how to confirm this information in another way.

From what I have read of these orphanages, the girls were always kept there until they were seventeen years old, at which point they were found some form of employment, often going into service (unless they were expelled previously for some reason). Would there be some way of tracing her when she came out of the institution (normally this would have been in 1869 in her case).

Sillitoe, Froude, Partington, Rochford

Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline ChasH

  • My email is no longer working sorry
  • RootsChat Aristocrat
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,804
  • The fool Monty
    • View Profile
Re: Advice sought on Muller orphanages
« Reply #1 on: Monday 08 September 08 17:44 BST (UK) »
ab,

The 1871 census springs to mind but her name would be needed.  Her expected age in 1871 would also help.  Have you tried this?

Regards

Chas
My email is no longer working sorry
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Bevstn:DAVIES:HIGGS:PERROT
Bisly:BROWN:COOK:CURTIS:DAVIS:FRANKLIN:GARDINER:GRIME:JEFFERIES:PEACEY:STEPHENS:WARREN
ChSod:HARDING:HIGGS
Colrne:GOLDEN
G Bad:DAVIES
Horsly:ADAMS:BAYLY:BIRD:COOK:EVANS:GAZARD:HILL:LEWIS:MATTHEWS:PRIDE:SKIRTON:TEAKLE:TURK:WALKLEY:YOUNG
K'St:BISHOP:PINEGAR
Marsh'd:BLAKE
Minch:HILL:MASON:PERRIN
N.Nib:PERROT:SHATFORD:WAYMAN:WOODWARD
N.Wrax:BLAKE

Offline Aks

  • RootsChat Senior
  • ****
  • Posts: 275
  • Photo - Annie Pomeroy
    • View Profile
Re: Advice sought on Muller orphanages
« Reply #2 on: Monday 08 September 08 18:02 BST (UK) »
Thanks for your reply.

Yes, I already have her on the 1871 census and later. It is with regard to her being in the orphanage in this earlier period that I would like to find some confirmation.

Alan
Sillitoe, Froude, Partington, Rochford

Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline Arranroots

  • RootsChat Honorary
  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 12,377
    • View Profile
Re: Advice sought on Muller orphanages
« Reply #3 on: Monday 08 September 08 21:32 BST (UK) »
Not much help re the orphanage but do you have her parents' names and have you found their deaths?

Just wondering which area they were in for the 1851 census and later?

Kind regards, Arranroots  ;)
Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
SOM: BIRD, BURT aka BROWN - HEF: BAUGH, LATHAM, CARTER, PRITCHARD - GLS: WEBB, WORKMAN, LATHAM, MALPUS - WIL: WEBB, SALTER - RAD: PRITCHARD, WILLIAMS - GLA: RYAN, KEARNEY, JONES, HARRY - MON: WEBB, MORGAN, WILLIAMS, JONES, BIRD - SCOTLAND: HASTINGS, CAMERON, KELSO, BUCHANAN, BETHUNE/ BEATON - IRELAND: RYAN (WATERFORD), KEARNEY (DUBLIN), BOYLE(DUNDALK)


Offline Aks

  • RootsChat Senior
  • ****
  • Posts: 275
  • Photo - Annie Pomeroy
    • View Profile
Re: Advice sought on Muller orphanages
« Reply #4 on: Tuesday 09 September 08 07:57 BST (UK) »
Many thanks for your reply.

I do have the information on her parents, who lived in Stoke Gabriel, Devon. Martha Susanna was the last of their 9 children and her parents died when she was quite young. I also know that Martha was in the Devon House of Mercy in 1871. Since I could not find her with any of her immediate family members in 1861, I started thinking of orphanages and, given the 1871 census of her birthplace being Bristol (whereas she was born in Stoke Gabriel), I thought she might have been in an orphanage in Bristol. Therefore, to me, it seems very reasonable that she was in the Ashley Down orphanage in 1861.

Alan

Sillitoe, Froude, Partington, Rochford

Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline Arranroots

  • RootsChat Honorary
  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 12,377
    • View Profile
Re: Advice sought on Muller orphanages
« Reply #5 on: Tuesday 09 September 08 13:38 BST (UK) »
So we're looking for a Martha Susannah (possibly FROUD/E possibly something else if fostered) aged about 9 in 1861.

Did she stay in the Devon area later? (I don;t have access to the 1871 at the moment to check)

Kind regards, Arranroots  ;)
Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
SOM: BIRD, BURT aka BROWN - HEF: BAUGH, LATHAM, CARTER, PRITCHARD - GLS: WEBB, WORKMAN, LATHAM, MALPUS - WIL: WEBB, SALTER - RAD: PRITCHARD, WILLIAMS - GLA: RYAN, KEARNEY, JONES, HARRY - MON: WEBB, MORGAN, WILLIAMS, JONES, BIRD - SCOTLAND: HASTINGS, CAMERON, KELSO, BUCHANAN, BETHUNE/ BEATON - IRELAND: RYAN (WATERFORD), KEARNEY (DUBLIN), BOYLE(DUNDALK)

Offline Aks

  • RootsChat Senior
  • ****
  • Posts: 275
  • Photo - Annie Pomeroy
    • View Profile
Re: Advice sought on Muller orphanages
« Reply #6 on: Tuesday 09 September 08 13:59 BST (UK) »
Dear Arranroots,

Thanks for your interest. Please do not search the censuses for her : I have already done this. I already have her on all of the censuses, as well as her birth, marriage, etc. (She was born on 4/2/1852 in Stoke Gabriel, Devon.) The only thing missing was the 1861 census, until I tracked her down to the Ashley Down orphanages in Bristol. I was fairly certain of this identification. However, when I contacted them, they said she is definitely not in their records. However, I have come across some incredible mistranscriptions of the surname Froude in the censuses, so wouldn't it be possible for the Muller orphanage records to be also mistranscribed? I'm basically looking for someone who has previous experience in accessing their records, for example.

Thanks,

Alan
Sillitoe, Froude, Partington, Rochford

Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline GRACELAND

  • RootsChat Aristocrat
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,820
  • Elvis Presley* ARTIST OF THE CENTURY..*
    • View Profile
Re: Advice sought on Muller orphanages
« Reply #7 on: Wednesday 10 September 08 19:51 BST (UK) »
God Knew Elvis was Tired so he called him to rest !................
"I like it well done, Cooked. I ain't orderin' a pet."
--Elvis Presley, On Meat
"Don't be like nobody else or you'll be livin' a lie, and that ain't livin'."
--Elvis Presley, On Individuality

Offline Aks

  • RootsChat Senior
  • ****
  • Posts: 275
  • Photo - Annie Pomeroy
    • View Profile
Re: Advice sought on Muller orphanages
« Reply #8 on: Thursday 11 September 08 09:38 BST (UK) »
Thanks for your reply, Graceland. Is it actually possible to consult the indexes or lists of children who were in the homes if one visits the Muller museum?

By the way, I wonder if someone can enlighten me regarding a related issue.

In the 1871 census record for Martha, her birthplace is actually given as "Somersetshire Bristol".

I thought Bristol was in Gloucestershire. What could be the reason for it being listed as Somerset rather than Gloucestershire?

Thanks,

Alan
Sillitoe, Froude, Partington, Rochford

Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk