Govan 1872-1881 Mystery

[aberdein]

I am coming to the conclusion that Agnes Cleland and Agnes Downes are one and the same person possibly born out of wedlock and taken care of by the Downes family. I have just found on 1851 census Agnes Downes 3 Niece living with James and Agnes Downes in Govan. She is still with them in 1861 aged 14. And four years later marries Thomas Reid. She is eighteen on her marriage certificate. Could this be the aunt that they stole the money from? To be continued - I hope

Aberdein

[MonicaL]

What were the names of Agnes Downes/Cleland parents from her marriage cert. to Thomas Reid?

Monica 

[aberdein]

James Cleland, gardener deceased and Agnes Smith. I can find no trace of these people at all

Aberdein

[hume]

Hi Monica,

Checked the certificate around the time the first post appeared. Her parents were James Cleland, gardener (dec.) and Agnes Cleland m.s. Smith. Young Agnes was staying at 9 Albert Street, Govan and if it helps, the witnesses were George Ritchie and Ann Bain.

hume24

I type too slow.

[MonicaL]

Can't easily see anything for them as yet either  Have you had any luck finding out what the maiden name was of the Agnes who shows as wife of James Downes in 1851/61?

I'm hoping also you might out further details when Gerry receives the photocopies that are due via post. The smallest details such as addresses etc. could help to unravel this further 

Monica 

[MonicaL]

Also, we know mother of Agnes was still was still alive from her MC and in the mid 1870s when daughter and husband kindly  cleared out her bank account. I wonder how her death cert may be showing, possibility she would have remarried and may not show under Clel*and/Smith.

Monica

[aberdein]

Thomas and Agnes followed the old tradition and named the first girl child Mary Simpson Reid after her paternal grandmother Mary Simpson even though she lived in far off Edinburgh.  However they then named the next girl Marion Downes Reid whereas it really ought to have been Marion Smith Reid after her maternal grandmother. Agnes already had one child before she was married. James Reid Cleland born in October 1865 and sadly died a year later. The place of birth was given as McKeans Buildings Govan and the place of death was Middleton Buildings Govan. None of this means anything to me but as you say Monica it is probably going to be some small thing that cracks this problem

Aberdein

[hume]

Hi Aberdein and Monica,

Found this interesting death in Govan ... few reappearing names! Could this be Agnes' mother?

Agnes Downs, washerwoman (single), d. May 17th 1876 aged 67. Her parents were John Downs, farmer (dec.) and Agnes Downs m.s. Smith (also dec.) Her death was registered by Archibald Keane, cousin.

Possibly her in 1871. No relationships shown even on the original image, but given the ages, they could be siblings?

Address: 8 Three Ell Road, Glasgow, Lanarkshire
James Downs, m, head, 76, weaver, b. Govan
Thomas ", m, -, 73, weaver, b. Govan
Agnes ", f, -, 60, housekeeper, b. Govan
William ", m, -, 58, gardener, b. Govan

Aberdein, could you post the 1851/1861 entries of the Agnes Downs staying with aunt and uncle?

hume24

[hume]

Found the entry on SP for 1851. Looks like the same people!

Address: Edmund's Lane, Glasgow, Lanarkshire
James Downs, m, head, 56, hand loom weaver (cotton), b. Govan
Thomas ", m, brother, 53, hand loom weaver (cotton), b. Govan
William ", m, brother, 40, hand loom weaver (cotton), b. Govan
Agnes ", f, sister, 42, housekeeper, b. Govan
Agnes ", f, niece, 3, -, b. Govan

So it's looking quite likely that Agnes was born out of wedlock to James Cleland and Agnes Downs. However, on her marriage (1865), she's actually given her maternal granny's name as her mother's.

hume24