Audlem/Wrenbury - where do I go next

[Dean1]

My GG Grandfather, George Foster  b 1799 Wrenbury who became a farmer or farm labourer, married Ann Cadman b1803 Acton on 1.4.1823 maybe at Wrenbury Church (does anyone have knowledge of who is buried in that graveyard?)  They had 10 children.    Apart from the names of their children - George 1840 being my G Grandfather - I can find out nothing about George and Ann.    I have tried everything I know to find out more to no avail - Parish Registers - they were C of E as far as I know - does not show either of their births or their marriage or their death.    I can't help wondering whether they stepped over the border from Staffordshire!  [Pretty sure the Cadman's originated from Staffordshire way back and maybe George Foster did and wasn't born in Wrenbury after all - maybe it is the first place he remembered]    I have found people in Marchington, Staffs who "at a guess" could be George's parents!   But this is not enough obviously and it really is very much of a stab in the dark!    I suspect George's father is in fact "William" and that George is the oldest of the next generation, if the naming in the family runs true to form.    Foster/Forster does not seem to be a problem - they are Foster on IGI which gives George's birth and their marriage and not Forster anywhere I have seen them.   The IGI marriage does not give George's parents which I am really after.    I have tried Ancestry Villages and the Wrenbury Village site, Parish Records (which records no baptisms at all for the Foster children or their births or marriages except for one, Ellen Foster who married Joseph Barnett in 1860 at Wybunbury Church).    On the 1841 census George is living in Wrenbury (27 Woolfall(fell) in the Hundred of Nantwich and on the E-mapping Victorian Cheshire Tythes map I find him at Woolfall as "occupier" not owner of the land where he lives.   However, with George Foster being a common name, is this actually him!   [I wonder if he went on to own land? - I wonder this because, in the generation before my own, there was a suicide because an Aunt and her husband had not been left /could find no record of being left, land by this chap]

Son George b 1840 says he was born Audlem/Congleton on his military paperwork (RMLI career serviceman and later Police Officer) and later says he was born in Astbury!     (His age was a bit "dodgy" - in his favour on his marriage certificate - and he gave his father's occupation as engineer also!)

I seem to be going round in circles with this family.   I know there is another very similar family (wife:  Ann (NOT Cadman) and husband George with similarly named children) in Wybunbury but the last siting (and at a guess it is him) is in 1881 (census) when he is living with his eldest son, William and William's wife Martha, at London Road, Stapeley.    He was 81 years old (which seems to confirm his dob)  The census described him as a "labourer" and married but his wife was not on the census at that address on census night.   The Cheshire Record Office has a death recorded for a George Foster in 1882 age 82 in Knutsford (could this be the registration district then for Stapeley).   I have not found Ann's death.

I can find no Will which can be attributed to George Foster or, indeed, Ann Foster.

I have been absolutely stuck with dear old George and Ann for almost a year now.   Can any kind person help me, advise me, shoot me!    This is my last effort at this chap and I am really disappointed to be defeated.

Many thanks (in eager anticipation ) Sue

[heywood]

I'm not much help I'm afraid but re the death:

March quarter 1882 Nantwich (covers Stapeley)
George Foster 83 yrs

not sure if this is the one you mean?

I notice that the IGI marriage is submitted:
have you tried other parish records- Acton, Newhall ? just got these from Genuki Cheshire

[Dean1]

Thank you for responding - I suspect the death is the one I referred to - I got it from the BDM post 1937 deaths of Cheshire Record Office.

I hadn't realised the IGI birth was submitted - I am sure I read somewhere recently that with IGI info, if you get the batch number, and request the microfische, you may get more info - not sure if this is true but my sister lives near a Mormon Church with this facility.

Not sure about Acton/Newhall - ?is Newhall the same area - I actually don't know the area and tend to have to look at maps!   I had no idea there were separate access places to Acton/Newhall for records (is this what you mean).   I have just been trying Parish/Bishops Transcripts Records On line.

Was on Genuk last night and didn't notice any access to records.

The death you mention sounds like the one I have seen which I assume is him - I wonder if it would be worth me requesting the certificate but it would tell me very little I suspect unless the name of the informant is known to me and since I know there is more than one William Foster (he was living with William Foster in1881 (I am assuming I have the correct George foster and the correct son William!) in the area I don't think I could be sure.   

This is my first venture into the pre-1937 relatives and I must say I find it quite difficult - I wonder how others feel - is it just a guess at the best?

Thanks you for your suggestions.

Sue

[heywood]

I'm not that good in early ones - I researched mine at local studies libraries etc.

For the parishes I went to:
http://www.ukbmd.org.uk/genuki/chs/parishes.html

and there are descripitions and dates there - I think I was looking Wrenbury up first and then took a tour!

If you are near a Mormon centre, you can order parish records to look at.

best wishes
heywood

[heywood]

Hi again Sue,

am looking again - hoping that it will all jump out at me  no such luck.
Am confused that you write 
Foster/Forster does not seem to be a problem - they are Foster on IGI which gives George's birth and their marriage and not Forster anywhere I have seen them.[/i]

IGI has:
submitted marriage George Forster and Ann Cadman 1823
extracted christening record for Hannah Forster 1823

1841 census Foster has been corrected to Forster by iansue (is that you?)

[Dean1]

The marriage for George Foster and Ann Cadman on IGI is, as you say, under the name Forster - had missed that.

George Foster's birth is under Foster i.e. b 1799 Wybunbury, Cheshire (does Wrenbury come under Wybunbury?) and if not, is this the correct George Foster?

Ellen Forster is not the daughter of George and Ann (apart from the fact she was born a little early i.e. parents didn't marry until 1.4.1823 - this one was born 4th May, 1823 and the parents are Joseph and Elizabeth. )  There is another further down the page born in Astbury but this is not her either, wrong parents.

I didn't correct the 1841 census - don't know who insue is - where did you see that?

I have just had a thought - I saw a list of names from the Borthwick family tree about a year ago and both George Fosters 1799 and 1840 were on it as was Ellen/Emma who married Joseph Barnett in 1860 in Wybunbury Church (I have certificate - a photocopy from that website) and I remember not so much there being Forsters (the two Georges were Foster) but there were Foresters on there - I believe the name may become that further back.    I have a copy of that list somewhere ......... somewhere being the operative word - and will hunt it out and double check.

Am intrigued about the 1841 census alteration though.

Will also check all the children and see if they are listed as Forsters for baptism - although I am pretty sure I did both names thoroughly.

Sue

[heywood]

Hi Sue,
Looking at the censuses, I think you may well have to sort out these two families.

1881 RG11; Piece: 3539; Folio: 36; Page: 18
George Foster (Forster) b 1799 Wybunbury with William (Forster) b 1829 Wybunbury and Martha b 1823 Wybunbury

1881 RG11; Piece: 2669; Folio: 112; Page: 9
William Foster b 1829 Audlem with Martha b Marbury 1836 living Shropshire

1871 RG10; Piece: 2795; Folio: 113; Page: 9
William b Audlem and Martha living Shropshire with children - emunerated as Forster

1871 RG10; Piece: 3712; Folio: 132; Page: 29
William Forster b 1831 Wybunbury with wife Sarah living Nantwich

1861 RG9; Piece: 2623; Folio: 31; Page: 6
William Foster b 1830 Audlem living Cholmondley (sub registration district Wrenbury)

can't see the other one

1851 HO107; Piece: 2169; Folio: 662; Page: 33
William Foster b Wybunbury

not sure re the other one

1841 HO107; Piece 118; Book: 20; Civil Parish: Wybunbury;  Folio: 10; Page: 15;
William Forster b 1831 parents George and Ann


1841 HO107; Piece 116; Book: 20; Civil Parish: Audlem; Folio: 10; Page: 15;
William Foster (Forster) b 1829 livign Audlem sub reg district Wrenbury parent George and Ann

Where I have highlighted in bold - that is the alternate name by iansue.

There does seem to be an Audlem/ Wybunbury divide. George in 1881 seems to be with the Wybunbury William.

I have followed William and not looked for George - what do you think? How does this tie in with your names?

[heywood]

You talked earlier about Ellen b 1823 - not yours - the one I quote is Hannah.

However this is yours in 1841
George,(farmer)  Ann, Hannah, Mary, William, John,Emma,Helen and George.

1851 -Foster -alternate name Forster living same place
George b Wrenbury Ann b Acton

1861- Foster - alternate name Forster George b 1801 Wrenbury; Ann b 1802 Wrenbury -living with son Thomas 19 yrs and Harriet 14 yrs

1871 has Thomas (alternate name Forster) still living Woolfall with wife and family - an ag lab (don't know where farm has gone)

There are  deaths for George and Ann Forster (ages a bit out) in 1870.

Hope this helps - it's probably very confusing but fingers crossed.

[Dean1]

Many thanks for the above - I really appreciate it as I have no access to the full census any longer.

My information on the ones I think are "my" George and Ann are the children::

Hannah     b 1826
Mary          b 1826
William       b 1829 - m - Martha b 1831 (no maiden name) - this may be the William and Martha with whom George 1799 was staying on the night of the 1881 census, in Stapeley but not entirely convinced.
John            b 1834 - m - Ann b 1835 (no maiden name)
Emma         b 1836 - m - Vernon Steele b 1836
Ellen            b 1837 - m - Joseph Barnett b 1839 - d 1908) at "The Parish Church" (no saints name) but presumably C of E Wybunbury Church on 2.7.1860.    Joseph was from somewhere that looks like Hatherton (but don't think it is) on marriage certificate which I have a copy of.   Ellen, however is listed as coming from Hatherton and father George is a farmer.   The marriage certificate states the area is Nantwich and there is a number (I have just noticed) which is Mxc (or Mkc) 532120.   John and Ann Foster were the witnesses.
Helen          b 1838 - never appears again on any census
George       b 1840 - married Mary Ann Rowland b1849 SA (his marriage certificate is the one that gives his father's name as William!! with an occupation of "engineer".   His service papers also state he himself was an "engineer" before joining the RMLI.  George is my G Grandfather.
Thomas       b 1842

NB Helen b 1838 never appears again on census after her one mention - did she die - never thought to look for her death or is she actually Ellen and there is an error on census - can't remember if they both appeared on same census.

Unfortunately I can't give origins of my information as I did this last year when I first started researching and didn't keep a record of where I got info from (I had no idea what the printed letters of each census were!) but I do know I had a good look at the 1841 and 1851 census - transcribed and original.

The Foster family seemed very traditional in the way they named their children as was the way at that time.    If this has run true to form then William b 1829 as the oldest son is correct for being the son of George b 1799.    William, according to my thinking, should be the first name of the father of George b 1799.

I have still to hunt out the list of names I have from the Borthwick Tree and will do that this evening (off for a bit of retail therapy today!)    I still suspect that William and Mary are the parents of George b 1799 (see entry on Wrenbury Village Website) - this would, if it is correct, give George 1799 a sister called Elizabeth who married someone by the name of PYE and moved to Newcastle-under-lyne(?m).

The reason I suspected the Fosters had stepped over the Staffordshire boundary into Cheshire is only based on the fact that, from my understanding of the map, Wrenbury is very close to the border.

There was another intriging thing on one of the early census - a Mary Moss, niece, was staying with the family on census night.   I notice on the E-tything map of Cheshire that there is a Moss Hall very close to Woolfall.    I think it might be worth me trying to look more closely at the Moss family to see who married into them - must have been a brother of George 1799.

Sue