Donegore - Bryson-Wilson

[Gilby]

Pezzy,

That newspaper article is a great find.  I think that is definitely your Sarah Bryson, and James McAllister was probably the father of James (Jim) Bryson/Watkins.  DNA testing should confirm that.

The thing that strikes me from the article is that £200 is a very substantial fine.  I think you could probably have bought a small house for that much in those days.  Whether or not James McAllister paid out is doubtful – cases like that could (and still do!) drag on for years without resolution.

I suspect the damages were that high because Sarah had had a child (i.e. James) as a result of the “seduction” and therefore it was basically a maintenance payment.

It does also make you wonder whether the relationship was consensual.  Though before I besmirch James McAllister’s character, it is interesting to note that James was called James.  You wouldn’t think Sarah would name her son after his father if she had been assaulted by him.

The article is also interesting because it clarifies what the relationship was between Sarah and the Andrew family.

Gilby

[Gilby]

This is probably the relevant McAllister family:

https://census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Antrim/Ballyclare_Rural/Ballyhamage/109112/

Their son James would have been a couple of years older than Sarah Bryson.

[Pezzy]

This is probably the relevant McAllister family:

https://census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Antrim/Ballyclare_Rural/Ballyhamage/109112/

Their son James would have been a couple of years older than Sarah Bryson.

Yes this is what I found too.
Also yes the cost is about £14,200 today and would have been huge back then. Not sure what came of it and it would have been paid to William Andrew and who ever may have helped with James.

Calling her son also James is a bit odd.
I have the thought that the promise of marriage may have been an issue and when this James as a potential suspect failed on this, then maybe the court case was pushed by William as to ensure the upkeep of Sarah and James.

I’m not sure how long it took to get to court and any hope of pressure to marry, they held on to? But 6 months after James being born….it was clear that a marriage wouldn’t be happening. That’s a theory anyway.

What are the chances of another Sarah Bryson living with another William Andrew in the same vicinity?

X

[threekids5]

Regarding #172  Catching up…I haven’t been getting notifications.

The line from James Bryson through Robert and his children is correct. The Mary Bryson Bell as Robert’s sister connection I’m not sure about only because of the birthdate. If it was 1835 or earlier it’s probably good. John W. Bryson lists children of my son James deceased in his will and John W died in February 1836. So by early 1836 he knew there was more than one grandchild and that his son was deceased. Since mail from Ireland to Western Pennsylvania was probably not fast it confuses me how Mary could be James’s daughter if she was born after 1835. Speculation is that James died the same year as his sister Jane Ferguson…1835.

John W Bryson’s (my 4th ggf) son James married Ann McConnell in 1829 at 1st Donegore. Robert was born about 1830-31.

I no longer think my James Bryson married Martha McConnell…according to the tombstone at Kilbride a James Bryson married Martha McConnell in 1832 and that James Bryson was the son of Andrew Bryson.

I now have a DNA link to the O’Haras, the Fosters and the Gordons. My cousin Jay has links to the O’Haras (Laurel Wilson) and the Gordon’s. All the matches are quite small.

Deb

[lmgnz]

Hi Deb

Rootschat have this thing where if you do not follow a link from a message to you, they don't send you any more messages on that topic. So though I have read your post by going directly to Rootschat, I have just now followed the link in my email to make sure I get notified of more posts.

Actually I was meaning to see how Pezzy is getting on with her husbands DNA.

Pezzy I think you have fairly strong evidence that Sarah's son James was a McAllister. You could have your husband do a yDNA test to confrim that but that is an expensive test even at the basic level of y36 which is the lowest useful test (below that they are a bit meaningless).

An autosomal DNA test for your husband should also get you to any McAllister testers, but you would need to know the surnames of McAllister descendants from different lines.  Though at least the matches may have trees that go far enough back for you to be able to identify the family from the 1911 census.

Your husband should also have up to 2x as much Bryson DNA as your daughter, which means he will pick up more Bryson DNA matches. Possibly even Deb and her cousin Jay.

One thing that seems apparent is that Sarah was the daughter of Ellen whose parents were Robert Bryson and Sarah Caldwell. Sarah's father remains unknown. He may not even be the same person as the father of Ellen's son Robert. It might need a direct male descendant of Sarah's brother to y DNA test find out who his father was.

[threekids5]

Pezzy, if you can send me your husband's name I'll check to see if he matches either Jay or me.  You have my email address so you can send it there.

Deb

[Pezzy]

Hi,

I had my son do a Y-dna test which I’m slowly getting the results from. Still waiting on the upgraded one but I have the y-67 and y-111. I have no clue about it so will need to spend some time in understanding it all.
The Bryson connection will be from James Bryson (Watkins) maternal side.
However my son has some stronger connections to bryson descendants named in this thread. My daughter and son both share connections with Gordon and Bryson descendants.

I believe James M’Allister’s grandfather may have been a Robinson.
The Y-DNA is showing connections to Robinson and pollock… again I need to understand it all more.

My son also has a connection to a descendant of William Andrew. Sarah Bryson’s adoptive father and employer.
Williams wife was a Bryson so that may explain that.

I have added the mtdna for my son too. I would like to know more about my side and I have my mother resting now as I have a connection to a Bryson descendant and would love to know more.

My Irish ancestors were Coulter, Christie, Conner, Orr etc. that’s my father’s side though.

My mother’s side on one line is a mystery and may have Irish connections.

Seems Manchester, barrow in Furness and Ireland had close ties.

Xx

[lmgnz]

Hi Pezzy

Yes I think there were Irish connections to Barrow on Furness or at least I have the family of my gt grandfather's oldest brother William Lynn Graham wliving in Barrow in 1891. The oldest son was born in Belfast  in 1886, the next son John was born in Barrow in 1891, but the next child was born in Belfast. William, like all the brothers was a blacksmith. So more mobile than a farmer.

It is interesting that William Robert McAllister names his father  as Archibald Robinson when he married Eleanor Hollinger in 1888. William was living in Holestone at that time (which is a Bryson location) but his occupation of carpenter is also mobile so he may have been born elsewhere.. Perhaps Archibald died shortly after William's birth and William's mother remarried.

 Though your son's yDNA should only link to Robinsons his autosomal DNA should also pick up Hollisters and William's mother's line if you know who she was.

[lmgnz]

Hi Pezzy

I think the mitochondrial DNA is the hardest to follow as there are so many people who share the haplogroups that you actually need to know more about your direct mother to daughter line than you do for any other test. And wives are poorly documented. Yes your son will have received his mitochondrial DNA from you so will tell you who else has the same mitochondrial haplogroup as you and your mother. But that group can be huge. FTDNA say they will be releasing new data soon which could hopefully help narrow that down a bit.

I had my brother's FTDNA sample tested for mitochondrial DNA as he would have the same haplogroup as our mother. My mother's mother was a Dougherty and her mother a Rebecca Shields but her mother's name and maiden name is unknown and remains unknown. Fingers crossed the new data when released  might help.

Of you father's associated names, Coulter is one that occurs in my mother's paternal family from Sligo. There are lots of Coulters.  Christie and Orr are in my paternal Graham family from Antrim. Ezekieal Graham, youngest backsmith brother of my gt grandfather, married a Christie. And one of my gt grandfather's sister's May Graham married an Orr.

Cheers

Linda