Threats from shhhhhhh you know who

[Mobo]

 

"Their" market, "their" copyrights ?  Rightfully, this information belongs to us through our ancestors, and as I said, if it had been in the Public Domain where it belonged, these companies would have had to look elsewhere to make money. 

As a matter of interest, I know all about business, when I was widowed very young,  I successfully ran one, whilst looking after a home and two small children. 

 

 

[Nicky]

I'M WITH YOU MOBO, HOW CAN THIS COMPANY COPYRIGHT THIS INFORMATION WHEN OTHER COMPANIES HAVE IT TOO?
NICKY

[RJ_Paton]

The company are NOT copyrighting the information .... they are copyrighting their version of the CD's.

They are not trying to stop access to the information on a general basis simply trying to protect the product they have created.

[Nicky]

ok falkryn, so how do they copyright their version?
nicky

[tabitha]

The point I was trying to make earlier was with regard to the "strong arm" tactics of this company in dealing with people they deem to have broken their terms & conditions.

Ebay has a policy of trying to stop illegal activity on their site. If S&N has a problem with people selling it's goods in an unacceptable fashion on the Ebay site.....why do they not liase directly with Ebay and find a solution? S&N need to be very careful with the "name & shame" list on their own website, they could easily find themselves on the receiving end of a solicitor's letter if they make the slightest error in the information they publish.

I personally have never bought a census CD set, the cost has always put me off.....if I only want to check half a dozen addresses, spending £40 is an expensive way to do it.  

I appreciate that these companies are providing "easy" access to information for a good number of researchers who would otherwise find it difficult and that their business would not exist if there wasn't a demand for what they sold. As Forester commented, maybe S&N have missed a marketing opportunity here, we'll wait and see! I'd also be interested to know if S&N staff were aware that their jobs were under threat.... they obviously will when they read this thread? Nice way to find out    

With regards to the ownership/copyright issue, please correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought all census details were "Crown copyright".....doesn't this mean that the government profit from selling a licence to reproduce the information?

Maybe, as in an earlier thread, we should all volunteer just half an hour of our time each week to http://freeukgen.rootsweb.com/

If all 10,000+ Rootschatters did 30 mins per week, that's approximately 5000 hours a week of transcribed data that will be available for free to anyone and everyone! Eventually we'd get to the point where we don't need to concern ourselves with type of discussion  

tabitha (I don't always moan...honest!!  )

[earley-bird]

"How many small fee paying resources would exist if some one came along and started selling the work that their volunteers had gathered ..."

Falkyrn, that's my whole point ! If the information were available through small-fee paying resources, what would be the point of anyone trying to sell it ??  No profit = no interest.

Thats quite right. The best resource I have found so far has been the members of this community. Everyone gives generously here because its the nature of this hobby. Sharing freely and helping others is a big part of the pleasure and reward.The amount of work members have put into transcribing the census so that everyone can have a free resource is phenominal.

I have no doubt that  S & N are producing excellent quality products  it is clearly part of their ethic but equally true is the fact that they have seized the opportunity to make a sucessful business with presumably good profits off the back of our hobby/interest. Nothing wrong with business . I'm all for entreprenurialship, (I am a company Director myself.) but my view is that sending threats of legal action to ebay sellers, customers and others  are more concerned with preserving profits than serving our hobby and is in my view an error of judgement

[Hackstaple]

Oh dear! The act of selling goods does not guarantee profit. The difference bewteen cost and selling prices is mark-up. That creates gross profit. Then come expenses and, if you are lucky, some nett profit remains. All business is a great risk.How one can judge it must be "Millions" escapes me.

"Their market" is the one that they have, by their own efforts, created.
"Their copyright" is created by the simple act of publication.
What rights do they have to assemble and publish matter in the public domain? Exactly the same as you would have. To feel that they should not acquire proprietary rights because it is "public knowledge" is like saying that nobody can copyright a book because all of the words are public knowledge or that a song may not be protected because all of the notes are common knowledge.

The culture of begrudging people their success is over done nowadays.

[tabitha]

The culture of begrudging people their success is over done nowadays.

Um....I'm not sure I agree with that, if honest hard graft has created success good luck to them I say!

I do however thing our litigation culture is over done nowadays. 

tabitha

[indiapaleale]

My two cents


I am very grateful to S&N and other companies who have taken the time and trouble to copy and format the census cds and make it possible for me to view them at home. If they have created a successful business in the process...good luck to them.

I am also very grateful to the people who own the cds and are willing to share the information contained in them with me. As I do myself. It would be very difficult to access this information easily without the sharing that goes on here and on other genealogy boards.

However, if I own a business and someone is taking my product ie: the format and end result (cd) and selling it in violation of my license then I would be obliged to take action.

Those who say that genealogy is a hobby and therefore should be "free" should carry on as though it were free.....go to the library or family history center. The information is already in the Public Domain.

I have several hobbies......none free....or so my husband tells me!

End of speech
Indi