Could this be my Esther??? Update

[lizdb]

and those Lazaruses in 1841

HO107 717 3

still Court Street

Isaac 54 Gen Dealer
Esther 60
Elizabeth 26  Furrier
Julia 23
Lidia 21
Sarah 19

not looking as if this Lydia is Esther/Susan's mother.
Though I would guess related, if Lydia and Julia were her witnesses

[eeyores4me]

thats very interesting Liz I never thought of her remarrying I did get a death cert for a Lydia lazaus but discounted it as it said widow of Levy Lazarus , you've got me thinking now thanks a lot
Only trouble is I cannot find a Esther or Susan Joel or Levy that would fit other than this girl aged 6
Jen that is the Colman Joel I thought was the girls father but where does Lydia and Susan/Esther fit in ? its so confusing this lot.
Yes Liz thats the witness they also lived in Court street

[JustinL]

I am convinced that Jen has found the right Coleman.

Can you see him in '41?

However, his wife, Ester, is unlikely to have been the mother of Ester junior as tha twould have beena breach of Ashkenazi naming custom.

Justin

[genjen]

1841, Shepherd Street, Spitalfields

Coleman Joel, 40, Broker
Esther Joel, 35
David, 15
Mark,14
Solomon, 12
Polly, 9
Joseph, 6
Joel, 10 mo,

All born in county

Jen

[JustinL]

Great stuff Jen.

Have you looked at the oiginal returns or have you just given us the transcripts?

Justin

[genjen]

I have checked the originals. Polly, aged 9, in 1841 is transcribed as something else - I'm not on that page anymore so can't check it at the moment - but it looked more like Polly to me.

Jen

[eeyores4me]

sorry had to go, thanks for your replies,
I do think this is my Colman Joel but he is married to an Esther not a Lydia??? are you saying you think Esther/Susan is their daughter ?? and if so whos mother is Lydia Lazaus if she was born in 1824ish and Abraham in 1834 she cannot be his mother surely but Susan/Esthers ??

[eeyores4me]

I am convinced that Jen has found the right Coleman.

Can you see him in '41?

However, his wife, Ester, is unlikely to have been the mother of Ester junior as tha twould have beena breach of Ashkenazi naming custom.

Justin what is the Ashkenazi naming custom please ??

[lizdb]

Whilst the Coleman Joel we have found could be the one who is Esther/Susan's father, this is obviously a family name as there are others around.
For example
HO107 1543 164 12
Spitalfields
Elizabeth Joel widow 49 shopkeeper
Coleman 19 son
Sarah 18
Mary 16
Joel 14

I am not saying that 19 yr old Coleman wouls be E/S 's dad (she should be about 9!) but it shows there are others around - maybe E/S's dad is not even still alive by 1851 (as we suggested before)