Author Topic: Rector of Llangwyfan 1830 - 1857  (Read 10015 times)

Offline parry71

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Rector of Llangwyfan 1830 - 1857
« on: Monday 20 October 08 22:09 BST (UK) »
Hello,

I am trying to establish whether the Rev. Robert Lloyd Roberts, rector of Llangwyfan in 1830 - 1837,  was in the adjoining parish of Llanrheadr yng Nghinmeirch as a Curate in the years around 1829.
The reason I ask this is that on the 1851 census his son another Robert was born in Llanrheadr in 1829.

Thankyou for reading this

Offline wilcoxon

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Re: Rector of Llangwfan 1830 - 1857
« Reply #1 on: Thursday 28 May 09 17:47 BST (UK) »
I can`t give the answer you want, but have found this .
Births, Deaths, Marriages and Obituaries
North Wales Chronicle (Bangor, Wales), Tuesday, November 3, 1835
On the 28th ult at the residence of her son the Rev R A R Roberts , Llangwyfan Rectory , Mrs Roberts of Brynmorwydd in the 81st year of her age.
She was a sister to the Rev R Pritchard,of  Dinam ,Anglesey.

From another article I found it seems A stood for Anwyl

OXFORD, Saturday, May 28
Jackson's Oxford Journal (Oxford, England), Saturday, May 28, 1825
Oxford. On the last day the 21 instant the following degrees were conferred.
 Bachelors in Divinity.
Rev Robert Lloyd Anwyl Roberts, Jesus.

Hope you find this of interest. :)
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Offline Jo Harding

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Re: Rector of Llangwfan 1830 - 1857
« Reply #2 on: Thursday 28 May 09 19:50 BST (UK) »
Hello there,

The Record Office for Llanrhaeadr Yng Nghinmeirch, at Ruthin, should be able to assist you with this query. I suggest a telephone call to see what they can provide.

Otherwise, the church of St Dyfnog has a website http://www.stdyfnog.org.uk/

I am sure that contact to the present incumbent would give you some help and an answer. The people in this place are extremely helpful and I speak from having had very many visits to this beautiful place.

Jp.

Offline Rol

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Re: Rector of Llangwyfan 1830 - 1857
« Reply #3 on: Saturday 30 May 09 04:47 BST (UK) »

Bryn Morfydd (as the Ordnance Survey currently spells it) lies just south of the village and church of Llanrhaeadr-yng-Nghinmeirch.  It is now a small hotel,  with a golf course attached.

In Archdeacon D R Thomas's History of the Diocese of St Asaph (HDSA),  2nd (3 vol.) edition,  vol. 2,  p.108 (within the list of rectors for the parish of Llangynhafal),  appears the following:

Quote
1857.      ROBERTS,  Robert Lloyd Anwyl,  M.A.,  Jesus College,  Oxford;  Rector of Llangwyfan,  1830-57;  only son of Rev. Robert Roberts,  M.A.,  Vicar of Llanrhaiadr,  1786-1817.
   
His successor as Rector of Llangynhafal is shown as having arrived in 1876.  Earlier in the section about the same church,  on p.106,  appears this:

Quote
The memorials in the church include the brass lectern to Rector R. Ll. Anwyl Roberts,  1831-76,  and Ellen his wife

Also in HDSA vol 2,  in the list of vicars for the parish of Llanrhaeadr-yng-Nghinmeirch,  p.51,  is to be found this:

Quote
1786.      ROBERTS,  Robert,  A.M.,  married Margaret,  sister of Owen Holland,  Esq,.  of Conway,  and was the father of Robert Lloyd Anwyl Roberts,  Rector of Llangynhafal. -- Mural tablet.

The next incumbent's date of arrival is shown as 1817.

Clergymen quite often employed their newly ordained sons as curates,  while the latter were seeking appointment to their first independent benefices;  but in this case the father seems to have died too soon to assist his son in that way.  However,  the new incumbent only stayed for a year or so before taking over a parish in England;  and Peter Williams D.D.,  the man who came in after that,  seems not to have resigned his existing living at Llanbedrog when he was appointed to Llanrhaeadr;  Archdeacon Thomas says Williams was very busy as a prolific author and that his death,  when it came in 1837,  occurred at Llanbedrog.  That makes it quite likely that he needed a curate to look after the parishioners of Llanrhaeadr,  and who better to select than the son of the man who had (effectively) been his predecessor -- someone who had been born and brought up there.

So the theory that Robert junior served as curate before moving on to Llangwyfan in 1830 seems perfectly reasonable,  especially as (via Bryn Morfydd) the Roberts family evidently maintained a continuing connection with Llanrhaeadr.

One way to be more certain about the matter would be to check who was certifying the annual Bishop's Transcripts of the parish register,  a record series now kept with the diocesan archives at the National Library of Wales.


Rol




CORRECTION (added Friday 5 June):

My post above is misleading about what HDSA shows as the succession of incumbents -- I ought to have turned over another page!  Peter Williams did not hold Llanrhaeadr in plurality with Llanbedrog all the way through until his death in 1837 as I had thought:  in fact he resigned Llanrhaeadr only two years after his installation there,  having persuaded the bishop to appoint his son Edward Williams to the parish as his successor;  and the son remained there until 1843.  So the odds that Robert Roberts served an apprenticeship as a curate at Llanrhaeadr before moving to Llangwyfan in 1830 seem to to be correspondingly worse.  As already mentioned,  someone with ready access to the NLW would need to check the certification of the BTs if we are to have some clearer evidence about the possible presence of curates.

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Offline wilcoxon

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Re: Rector of Llangwfan 1830 - 1857
« Reply #4 on: Saturday 30 May 09 08:12 BST (UK) »
Well, it all came eventually, after 6 months from the firstpost , it just proves that the answers are worth waiting for  :)



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Offline Paul

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Re: Rector of Llangwfan 1830 - 1857
« Reply #5 on: Saturday 30 May 09 17:04 BST (UK) »
Llanrhaeadr-yng-Nghinmeirch baptisms.

Aug 26 1828. Robert Lloyd s/o ???? Anwyl & Ellen Roberts. Bryn ????ydd. Fathers Occ, Clerk.
Dec 22 1829. Richard Anwyl. s/o """""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""

Paul.

Offline Rol

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Re: Rector of Llangwyfan 1830 - 1857
« Reply #6 on: Saturday 30 May 09 18:49 BST (UK) »

A minor puzzle in this story is the apparent conlict between the 1835 death notice in the North Wales Chronicle

Quote
November 3, 1835      On the 28th ult at the residence of her son the Rev R A R Roberts , Llangwyfan Rectory , Mrs Roberts of Brynmorwydd in the 81st year of her age.  She was a sister to the Rev R Pritchard, of  Dinam ,Anglesey.

and the Llanrhaeadr mural tablet as cited in HDSA ii 51,  i.e.

Quote
1786.      ROBERTS,  Robert,  A.M.,  married Margaret,  sister of Owen Holland,  Esq,.  of Conway,  and was the father of Robert Lloyd Anwyl Roberts,  Rector of Llangynhafal. -- Mural tablet.

A marriage bond recorded in the NLW's ISYS database supports the North Wales Chronicle's version:

Quote
ROBERTS, Robert, bach., clerk, Llanrhaeadr yng Nghinmeirch, DEN. 1796, Jul 11. At Llangaffo, AGY. Margaret Prichard. A,B. 29/71.

If the bridegroom of 1796 was a bachelor,  and the bride lived on until 1835 (apparently dying a widow),  it seems quite hard to resolve the contradiction by postulating a second marriage.

On the face of things either the memorial itself,  or Thomas's transcription of it,  must be mistaken.

Can anyone explain further?


Rol
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Offline Jo Harding

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Re: Rector of Llangwfan 1830 - 1857
« Reply #7 on: Saturday 30 May 09 19:41 BST (UK) »
Hello there,

I wouldn't care to postulate an answer to this, other than to say that it appears one of these reports is incorrect. Question is, which one?

It may take some research to answer this. In the website for Archives Network Wales, I found an entry for the Anwyl Papers held in the Caernarfon Record Office. This reads,"Papers relating to the Anwyl family of Caernarfonshire, 1632 (mid 20th century) mainly of Reverend Robert Lloyd Anwyl Roberts, including Deeds 1632-1859, relating to land in the parishes of Penmachno, Penmorfa, Llanfihangel-y-Pennant, and Trefiw, Caernarfonshire, Trawsfynydd and Maentwrog, Merionethshire...".

http://www.archivesnetworkwales.info/cgi-bin/anw/name_search?id=2672&acc_type=2

I do think the answer can be obtained but doubt this can be achieved online. A few days in the Record Office, or National Library of Wales, may be necessary.

I stand to be corrected!

Jo


Offline parry71

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Re: Rector of Llangwfan 1830 - 1857
« Reply #8 on: Saturday 30 May 09 22:03 BST (UK) »
May I thank all the contributors who have writtten on the above.  It is fascinating reading and makes me more convinced that the Roberts family connection is the reason how my Gt Gdmother came to be working at the Llangwfan Rectory in 1841.  She was born in Llanreadr yng Ngh. abt 1823 and was obviously known and could be trusted as a servant.  Strangely I cannot find a record of her baptism, which is strange as she went to work for a clergyman, and  I would have thought it would have been a requisite for employment in his household.