Rector of Llangwyfan 1830 - 1857

[Paul]

Hello, can you post the details you have from the 1841 census please.

Paul.

[wilcoxon]

This must be them Paul. I`m guessing it`s Maria we`re looking at.
HO107; Piece 1404; HO107; Piece 1404;
Rectory House.
R LL A Roberts 40 Ind  Y
Ellen Roberts 40 N
John Augustus 8 Y
Wm Vincent 5 Y
Margaret Evanes 25  FS Y
Maria Parry 18 FS Y
Robert Davies 14 MS

[Rol]

First,  my apologies to Parry71 for focusing still on the man in the thread-title rather than on Maria Parry;  but once the hare is running it is hard to call off the hounds!  And I ought to do my best to answer the sub-question raised in Reply 6 above,  having posed it myself.

Jo,  I am very grateful to have that ANW reference you posted.   I do not think that I had ever heard about those particular Anwyl papers,  and they look very interesting.  Although they only consist of 27 items,  there must be a good chance that they reveal how the Revd R L A Roberts of Llangwyfan and Llangynhafal came to have Anwyl as a middle name.

I phoned Caernarfon record office earlier today and they say that the documents must have come in before 1970 (that being the date when the RO prepared the schedule) and were deposited by Moses Griffith of [Trefaes,] Menai Bridge,  Anglesey.  Unfortunately they could not give me a fuller provenance showing how the collection came into Mr Griffith's own possession (e.g. by purchase,  or by family descent);  and apparently the schedule does not have the usual sort of analytical introduction.  Anyway,  although I only seem to find time to visit Caernarfon every two or three years,  the "Anwyl Family Papers" (ref. XM/1390) will definitely be on my "to do" list next time!

If any other reader of this thread has already had the chance to dip into this collection,  it would be fascinating to see the key headlines of what it reveals posted on RootsChat.

For the record,  FreeBMD shows a death in Q1 1876 in Ruthin RD in the name Robert Lloyd A Roberts,  at the age of 78  years (ref 11b 281).  North Wales BMD narrows this to the sub-district of Llandyrnog -- which included the parish of Llangynhafal.

I have been doing some exploration of old notes and I think that the puzzle of the two wives raised in my Reply 6 above derives from the fact that there were three related clergymen who served as vicar (or ?curate) of Llanrhaeadr-yng-Nghinmeirch and bore the name Robert Roberts:  uncle then nephew then great nephew (the latter being our RLAR).  So D R Thomas (or his transcriber) can be pardoned for some confusion,  as can we.  The Uncle's PCC will of 1776 and Griffith's Pedigrees pp.46 (Prichard) and 341 (Holland) serve to clarify matters.  According to Alumni Oxonienses,  the Nephew matriculated from Jesus College in 1766 aged 18 and was the son of David Roberts of Trawsfynydd gent.

Item 14 in the NLW Maurice Johnson Genealogical Papers also contains some material about these people (unpaginated -- ?about two thirds of the way through).  Johnson says that the above David and his brother Robert (the Uncle) were sons of Robert Roberts (yet another!) of Goppa in the parish of Trawsfynydd (d.1756),  by Catherine Lloyd his wife (d.1763).

The 1776 PCC will of the Uncle helps support some of this.  It is fairly clear that he died childless.  He refers to his 1760 marriage settlement with his wife Margaret née Holland,  to whom he leaves a life interest in the settlement fund,  with the capital going afterwards to his five nieces,  four of whom are unmarried and resident at Coppa in Trawsfynydd.  The testator's land (not specified) at Llanrhaeadr-yng-Nghinmeirch is settled on his nephew Robert (at that time the clergyman at Pentrefoelas) for life and then entailed on Robert's issue, with remainder in default on trust for sale for the benefit of the five nieces in equal shares.

It would still be good to know the exact wording of that "mural tablet" in Llanrhaeadr church;  and I wonder if anyone is a Goppa expert . . .


Rol



ADDED 2 June 2009 (3:46 PM):

The Nephew's will,  like the Uncle's, was proved at the PCC (in 1818),  and so is available for download via TNA's DocumentsOnline service;  but I have not read it myself.

[Rol]

Yesterday I was able to see a photocopy reproducing a typescript version of notes on Llanrhaeadr-yng-Nghinmeirch MIs made a century or so ago by W M Myddelton (the man who edited the published Chirk Castle Accounts).  The original is at the library of the Society of Genealogists in London.

I do not have total confidence in the accuracy of this typescript,  made by E W Topham Steele,  because (a) I know Myddelton's hand can be difficult to read and (b) some extracts do look suspect.  However,  parts of the notes seem relevant for present purposes and worth reporting here.

Evidence suggesting that Edward Williams,  vicar from 1822 to "1843" (see addition to Reply 3 in this thread),  was resident and ministering in person to his parishioners is the fact that the MIs show that on his premature death in 1842 aged only 46,  he was buried there rather than anywhere else -- as were other members of his family later in the century (his widow is said to have gone off to South Africa to become a missionary).  Furthermore,  the MI notes include a memorial dated 1836 to "Jane Hughes . . . for 15 years the faithful & respected Housekeeper of Rev Mr Edw Williams,  Vicar of this par.  Died at the Vicarage."

The extracts also record MIs to Robert Lloyd Anwyl Roberts (the man I labelled the Great Nephew in Reply 11) and his immediate family,  grouped together in such a way as to suggest that they may all have been on a single monument:

1.  Rev Robert Lloyd Anwyl Roberts,  late of Bryn Morwydd & Rect of Llanganhafal,  ob 6 Mch 1876,  aet 77

2.  Ellen Roberts 2nd d of Rev R Prichard of Dinam Anglesey & relict of above Rev R Ll A,  ob 16 Jun 1882,  aet 82

3.  John Augustus Roberts 3rd s of above,  ob 28 Jan 1851,  aet 18

4.  Wm Vincent Roberts 4th s of same,  ob 17 Apl 1876,  aet 40

5.  Richd Anwyl Roberts 2nd s of above,  ob 21 Feb 1885,  aet 55

6.  Anne Adelaide Roberts only surv d of above,  ob 25 Jun 1906,  [aet] 63

For the sake of completeness I am also adding here some additional references to the Roberts family.  The CFHS transcript of Llanrhaeadr PR records the baptism of the Great Nephew on 9 April 1798 (with the forenames Lloyd and Anwyl apparently reversed),  son of the Revd Robert Roberts,  vicar of this parish,  and Margaret his wife.  Back on 13 December 1775 the same source records the burial of the Uncle:  Robert Roberts,  late vicar OTP.

Finally,  Foster's Alumni Oxonienses,  cited about the Nephew in Reply 11,  also has entries for the Great Nephew and the Uncle:

ROBERTS,  Robert Lloyd Anwyl,  s. Robert,  of Llanrhaiadr,  co. Denbigh,  cler.  JESUS COLL,  matric. 28 May,  1816,  aged 18;  B.A. 1820,  M.A. 1825.

and

ROBERTS,  Robert,  son of Robert,  of Trawsfynydd,  pleb.  JESUS COLL,  matric. 23 March,  1737-8,  aged 18;  B.A. 1741,  M.A. 1744.

Rol

[ainslie]

As an impressed reader of this thread, I think a round of virtual applause is called for!

[parry71]

May I echo the comment from ainslie, I never thought when I originated my enquiry about my Gr gdmother Maria Parry as to how she was working in the Rectory at Llangwfan in 1841.  I had a gut feeling that there must have been a connection with Llanrhiadr yng Ngh and reading the all the information she must have found a good home at the Rectory in Llangwfan.  It is always good to fill the background to an ancesters life especially in their early days.
Maria had moved away  by 1851, to where I do not know but by 1857 she had married my Gt Gdfather.  at the time of her marriage she was in service at the Vaughans house at Trawscoed (Crosswood) at Llanafan.
Once again I join in the round of virual appalause. Diolch l am fawr.

[Rol]

Nice to come back and find those two kind posts about the people who have been contributing info to this thread -- and to the extent that they were aimed at me in particular,  many thanks -- though credit is certainly due to others,  especially to Wilcoxon for setting the ball rolling with those revealing newspaper items and to Jo for discovering the Roberts/Anwyl papers at Caernarfon RO.

I have long been curious about the origins of the Robertses of Goppa and the identity of the Trawsfynydd families into which they married,  so Parry71's enquiry seemed as good an excuse as any to establish an online "data cache" about them and thereby draw the gaze of the search engines.  That should help future researchers -- plus,  with luck,  attract contributions from others out there who may have spotted additional archival references to them.

As to Maria Parry herself,  as I understand it the key point that Parry71 wanted to establish was that the Rector of Llangwyfan (at whose house Maria was working in 1841) had some earlier connection with the parish of her birth, i.e. Llanrhaeadr-yng-Nghinmeirch.  The exact nature of that connection (e.g. whether R L A Roberts had previously served there as a curate) was really only a secondary matter.  The Bryn Morfydd references found by Wilcoxon and Jo serve to establish the necessary association perfectly well,  so the reduced likelihood that RLAR served there as curate in the late 1820s does not really matter much:  thanks to the Robertses' longstanding clerical (and continuing property) links with Llanrhaeadr,  they are pretty likely to have come across  Maria and her family,  with the result -- as Parry71 says -- that she was "known and could be trusted as a servant".

Anyway,  Maria certainly moved on to a much grander household when she secured that place with the Vaughans at Trawscoed -- looks as though the Rector of Llangwyfan wrote her a glowing reference!


Rol

[wilcoxon]

You really have done well , and I`m glad that little `snippet` I found got the ball rolling.
You mention that you would like to help others, via search engines, there`s a site http://www.scribd.com/
You can upload any thing on to this,.
 I have sent a PM.

[Jo Harding]

Hello again,

I have found a Wikipaedia entry for the Anwyl family, which not strictly relevant to the original post here, seem to have some interest to people who have contributed. They are described as the Anwyl of Tywyn family. Plenty of genealogy here!

The link is  http://en.wikipedia/org/wiki/Anwyl_of_Tywyn_Family

I have been looking at the website for St Dyfnog at Llanrhaeadr and there is a contact E-Mail address for the vicar there. I would be happy to make contact to verify monumental inscriptions. I have been to this wonderful church many times and live too far away to go myself at present. I have met the present incumbent and am sure he would assist with this.

Jo