Author Topic: Granshaw origins  (Read 9116 times)

Offline Gaie

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Re: Granshaw origins
« Reply #9 on: Wednesday 22 October 08 23:43 BST (UK) »
Well, I picked Isaac and Mary c1796 just as an example, so strange that you should have documentation on them already!!  Note: no connection shown with your George, but interesting examples of how birth years can vary through different records for the same people.

Mary Forecast nee Granshaw 1839 shown in red.

All from census images:
1841 HO107 36 3 12 19
Commercial Hall, Reading, Berkshire (all weavers’ households on the page)
Isaac GRANSHAW 45 J(ourneyman) Silk Weaver n fp
Mary 45 n fp
Samuel 13 n fp
Benjamin 11 n fp
Thomas 8 n fp
Mary 6 n fp
Joseph 4 n fp
Next door
Isaac GRANSHAW 20 J Silk Weaver n fp
Mary 20 n fp
Mary 2 n fp

1851 HO107 1543 292 48
13 Quaker St, Spitalfields, Middx
Isaac GRANSHAM (sic!) 60 silk weaver b Bethnal Green, Middx
Mary Wife 60 silk weaver b Bethnal Green, Middx
Thomas Son 18 silk weaver b Bethnal Green, Middx
Mary Dau 16 silk weaver b Bethnal Green, Middx
Joseph Son 14 silk weaver b Bethnal Green, Middx

1851 HO107 1542 436 6
15 Anchor St, Bethnal Green Town, Middx
Isaac GRANSHAW Head 33 hand loom weaver b Bethnal Green, Middx
Mary A Wife 36 hand loom weaver b Bethnal Green, Middx
Mary A Dau 12 hand loom weaver b Bethnal Green, Middx
Eliza Dau 1 b St Lukes Middx

1861 RG9 265 46 31
13 Quaker St, Spitalfields, Middx
Isaac GRANSHAW Head 70 silk weaver b Middx
Mary Wife 70 weaveress b Middx
Thomas Son 25 labourer docks b Middx


1861 RG9 255 12 27
2 East St, Bethnal Green, Middx
Isaac GRANSHAW Head 44 silk weaver b Middx, Bethnal Green
Mary Wife 41 silk weaver b Middx, Bethnal Green
Sarah Dau 10 b Middx, Bethnal Green
Joseph Son 4 b Middx, Bethnal Green
Elizabeth Dau 1 b Middx, Bethnal Green


1871 RG10 505 25 6
34 Quaker St, Spitalfields, Middx (house divided into three households)
Mary GRANSHAW Head Widow 74 laundress b Middx Bethnal Green
Thomas Son Unm 34 cotton winder b Middx Bethnal Green

1871 RG10 485 27 48

Isaac GRANDSHAW (sic) Head 53 weaver b Middx Bethnal Green
Mary Wife 50 weaveress b Middx Bethnal Green
Sarah Dau 19 a ?narrow b Middx St Lukes
Joseph Son 13 scholar b Middx Bethnal Green

IGI extracted records from parish registers

Marriage: Isaac GRANDSHAW (sic) = Mary BISSEY 17/9/1815 St George the Martyr, Southwark (I’m wondering whether this was a literal writing of the surname BISSET?  Could Grandshaw come from GRANDCHAMPS or something similar?)

Born to Isaac Sr and Mary
Elizabeth b 20/5/1820 ch 11/6/1821 St Leonards, Shoreditch
Benjamin b 8/7/1823 ch 28/7/1823 St Leonards, Shoreditch
Thomas born July 1833 ch 28/10/1834 (sic) St Leonards, Shoreditch
Mary Ann b 3/2/1835 ch 2/3/1835 St Leonards, Shoreditch
Marriage: Isaac GRANSHAW = Mary Ann MEEK
24/12/1838 St Leonards, Shoreditch, Middlesex

Born to Isaac Jr & Mary
Mary Ann either Mar Qtr 1839 Bethnal Green Vol 2 Page 46
or Jun Qtr 1839 Bethnal Green Vol 2 Page 52;
 - the other Mary Ann was the daughter of James & Sophia – I don’t know which is which.

Eliza Jun Qtr 1849 St Luke Vol 2 Page 298
Sarah Dec Qtr 1851 St Luke Vol 2 Page 299
Joseph Jun Qtr 1857 St Luke Vol 1b Page 542
Elizabeth Dec Qtr 1859 St Luke Vol 1b Page 570

Marriage: James FORECAST = Mary Ann GRANSHAW
Dec Qtr 1858 Bethnal Green Vol 1c Page 691
The Forecasts appear to have been silk weavers as well!

Possible death for Isaac Sr:
Mar Qtr 1866 Whitechapel Aged 76 Vol 1c Page 274

So the census and parish records confirm what was in the information supplied to you by the Huguenot Society for this Mary Granshaw; dates, addresses, etc.

I’ll put James & Sophia in the next posting.
Kind regards
Gaie
Sussex, Burwash/Somerset/South London: PANKHURST/FABLING/GREEN/KING/PARROT/POPE/PEMBROKE
Notts/Leics/London: POLLARD/BELAND/FELLS/MORRISON/MARYSON/CLARKE
Northants: MARRIOT/T
Suffolk: LINGLY/LINGLEY/LINDLY/LINDLEY/ SEAGER /SIGGER/SEGGAR/VINCE
Gloucs: WINDOW Glamorgan: JENKINS Cardiganshire: JONES
Poland: OZIEMKIEWICZ France: LINETTE

Offline czarnolas

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Re: Granshaw origins
« Reply #10 on: Thursday 23 October 08 14:58 BST (UK) »
Gaie

You really have been working overtime! Thanks very much for all this information.

I didn't (and don't) think there was a direct link between George and this family, although there might be an indirect one. It is a strange coincidence that you should choose that example when I'd already got some information on them. That said, there weren't that many Granshaws in the country at that point, so perhaps it's not so strange.

The Huguenot society sent me that information just to illustrate the Huguenot connection, as claims to Huguenot ancestry had to be 'proved' before alms would be given. They hold copies of the documents (of which I hope to get copies myself) which were considered t have substantiated the Huguenot claim.

The variances in calculated birth dates are staggering! I can see why you say that the differences I have encountered may not be significant - perhaps George really was the 6 yr old showing in James' household in the 1851 census after all.

One thing does puzzle me - the 1841 census from which you extracted the information about Isaac and family shows not only Isaac but all his family as n, fp, implying that they were all born outside this county. However, from the Huguenot society information, Mary Annis shown as having been born 24th Jan 1839 at 21 Cross Street, Bethnal Green!

GRANSHAW <-> GRANDCHAMPS? ... another intriguing idea. I confess I also wondered about Bissey/Bissett. I suppose there are a number of possible origins of Granshaw, but going back to my earlier post, what I don't understand is how could various branches of the family end up with identical (or near identical) spellings if separated by years, decades or even centuries (ref the 17th C Granshaw as opposed to the ones that supposedly immigrated in the late 1700s)?

Intuitively one would expect all family members with the same (or nearly the same) spelling to have acquired their change of name at the same time surely?

I suppose the only chance of confirming the original name would be to trace a first generation Granshaw and hope to find some documentary clue...

Oh, and by the way; I assume it must be the first of your two MaryAnns asn the Huguenot Society information gives her date of birth as 24th Jan (as I've mentioned).

Thanks again.

Offline cliffg

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Re: Granshaw origins
« Reply #11 on: Sunday 30 November 08 16:29 GMT (UK) »
Hi, Czarnolas and Gaie,
I replied on the other thread to Czarnolas as well. I have all these names on my family tree for the Granshaws. There's about 1500 names on it, and it fills a 36 x 48 poster sized sheet. The tree has a lot of holes in it, and so if you'd care to swap information, you're both welcome to a copy. It may at least give you a place to start research.
Granshaws were in the U.S before 1700, so the family line may have started about the middle 1600's. Huguenots were emigrating to all countries, and apparently they went to Virginia as well. None of the heraldry books I've checked has a record of the name, but there were immigrants to the U.S in 1800's from Germany with the name. I hope you get copies of the Huguenot connection, no-one that I've been in contact with seems to have conclusively proved it.
By the way, Isaac was a very popular name with the Granshaws, there was the one 1795-1866 who married Mary Bisset(y?)1791-? and another born 1817.
Good luck on all of this to you both

Offline richarde1979

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Re: Granshaw origins
« Reply #12 on: Friday 24 February 12 14:24 GMT (UK) »
Hello

I realise that this thread is quite old now, but came across it researching the Huguenot VENDOME family, as two of the families they intermarried with namely BUCK & FORECAST, are mentioned here. I was suprised to see the Grandshaws mentioned as I researched these in quite some detail back in 2009 as part of my own ongoing researches into the Spitalfields Silk Weaving families.

I have also posted this to your Ancestry 'Granshaw' Group, but duplicate here in the hope it will be seeen and prove useful to GRANDSHAW decendants and researchers.


The name was original spelt variously as GRANSART/GRANDSART/GRASSART in France, (and occasionaly in England too) and came to London's Huguenot community with Jean Jacques GRASSART a refugee in June of 1762. He was then a few weeks shy of his 48th birthday, and was a native of Quievy, in Northern France. His sister had already been in the refuge since 1750 so he was joining relations here. I have traced his ancestry back to his great grandparents Andrieu Gransart and Marie De Mons, Protestants who married in Quievy 28 November 1642.

Jean Jacques himself was born as Jean Jacques GRASSART on 6 Sep 1717, in Quievy, France, the son of Andre GRASSART (1683-1741) & Sainte MOREAU (1678-1742).

Jean Jacques was the fifth of seven children to his parents, and as an adult worked as a Linen Weaver.

On 10 April 1742 he married Marie Rose Lengrand also of Quievy. They had the following children:

GRASSART Jacques Antoine (1743 Quiévy - 1748 Quiévy)
GRASSART Marie Reine (1744 Quiévy - 1746 Quiévy)
GRASSART Marie Paques (1749 Quiévy - 1753 Quiévy)
GRASSART Anne Reine (1751 Quiévy)
GRASSART Constance (1755 Quiévy - 1762 Quiévy)


Marie died in childbirth 1755, and he began a relationship with Mary Elizabeth (Isabeau) Cartigny of St Hiliare. They crossed the border to marry in the Huguenot Temple at Tournoi on 14 January 1759, and their existing child (likely their son Thomas) was legitimized on the marriage.

One more child was born to them in France, Marie Joseph GRASSART b 15 march 1760 Quievy, baptised there the next day.

Increasing pressure had been placed on the Protestant enclave of Quievy by the local Catholic authorities. As mentioned above, in  1750 Jean Jacques sister Marie Barbe GRASSASRT (B.1720) had already fled to London with her husband Jean Philipe Delporte, joining the Huguenot congregation of Threadneedle Street London, via public abjuration of Catholicism, on 30 September that year.

Jean Jacques himself, was certainly still in Quievy as late as early June 1762, his daughter Constance dying and being buried there age 7 on the third of that month.

His wife Elizabeth CARTIGNY/GRASSART was heavily pregnant at that time giving birth to the couples third child Ann Elizabeth on 16th of that month. Whether it was the particular circumstances surrounding Constance's death and Ann Elizabeth's birth that influenced their decision to flee is unknown, but within eleven days of his new daughter birth, the whole family (Jacques, his wife, and his four surviving children Ann Reine, Thomas, Marie Joseph, Ann Elizabeth), had fled to England, Lo, along with his nephew Louis Bantigny, Louis joining the Threadneedle Street Church on 27 June that year.

The baby Ann Elizabeth was baptised in London a week later, (Surname spelt on the record as GRANSAR) 4 July 1672, at The Artillery Huguenot Church, Spitalfields.

One further child Elizabeth (Surname spelt as GRANSART) was also baptised to them privately at the home of Monsieur Jacob Bourdillon, Minister of the same Artillery Huguenot Church, Spitalfields in November 1764, but sadly did not survive.

Clearly the family was in dire straits in England as in 1765 Jean Jacques was one of fifty eight petitioners to the Board of Trade informing them :

[that the subscribed twenty families of destitute French Protestants were in London, that relief had been sought from the French churches in the city, "which already swarmed with poor", but without avail; and that unless they be transported to some colony they "would starve for want in this land of plenty".]

He appeared on the petition as follows:

["Jean Jacques GRANSAR, sa femme & quatres Enfans Tisserand & Ouvrier de Terre - 6 persons"]


i.e "Jean Jacques GRANSAR, his wife and four infants, Weaver & Worker on the Land - 6 persons"

The petitioners collectively expressed a desire to go to South Carolina and to join a British Huguenot colony under the care of John Pierre Gibert and Mr. Boutiton, but were not succesful in this wish.

......................... (cont)
Bellenger, Sebire, Soubien, Mallandain, Molle, Baudoin - Normandy/London
Deverdun, Bachelier, Hannoteau, Martin, Ledoux, Dumoutier, Lespine, Montenont, Picard, Desmarets - Paris & Picardy/Amsterdam/London
Mourgue, Chambon, Chabot - Languedoc/London

Holohan, Donnelly, McGowan/McGoan - Leitrim, Ireland/Dundee, Scotland/London.

Gordon, Troup, Grant, Watt, McInnes - Aberdeenshire, Scotland/London


Offline richarde1979

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Re: Granshaw origins
« Reply #13 on: Friday 24 February 12 14:25 GMT (UK) »
..........

Remaining in London the following year Jean Jacques enrolled his daughter Marie Joseph GRASSART as a pupil at The Westminster French Protestant Charity School.

Sadly soon after Jean Jacques was himself widowed again and crossed over to the Huguenot Church in Tournoi to marry for a third time to Margeuritte Dumme, a Protestant of Templeux le Geurard, on 19 July 1772.

A week to the day later his son Thomas was also married, back in England, on 26 July 1772 at St Dunstan's Stepney, to Susanne Blariau, a fellow Huguenot refugee (in her case born in London 1753). The clerk on the marriage recorded his surname in this instance as GRANDSAW.

They had the following children together (In each case I have kept original register spelling to show how the name was rapidly transforming in England to the more familiar form):

GRANDSHAW Jane born. 10 Oct 1722 bap.25 Oct 1772 St Leonard's, Shoreditch

GRANSART John born.8 Nov 1775 bap. 3 Mar 1776  St Leonard's, Shoreditch

GRANDSOR Jane bap. 19 Jul 1782 St Matthew's, Bethnal Green

GRANSAW Elizabeth bap. 7 Feb 1788  St Matthew's, Bethnal Green

GRANSHAW Susan Alice born. 5 Jan 1790 bap. 19 Feb 1790  St Matthew's, Bethnal Green

GRANSAW Sarah born.21 Oct 1791 bap. 4 Nov 1791  St Matthew's, Bethnal Green

GRANDSAW Isaac born 23 Feb 1795 bap.11 Mar 1795  St Matthew's, Bethnal Green
  (* note married Mary BISSEY 17/9/1815 St George the Martyr, Southwark, see Gaie's earlier posts.)


The couple had at least one further child, a son Thomas GRANSHAW, who married Elizabeth Body 20 Feb 1803 at St Leonard's Shoreditch. To date I cannot find his baptism.

Thomas sr is down as a Weaver on the baptisms and clearly the family were still struggling Elizabeth, Susan & Sarah all recorded as being born within the Bethnal Green Workhouse. Susan Alice died aged 11 months in January 1791 at which time the family was recorded as living on Pheonix Street, Spitalfields.

Of Jean Jacques GRASSART's other children eldest daughter Ann Reine GRASSART, like her father, crossed over the channel to Tournoi's Huguenot Temple for her own marriage in April 1776 to Armand Joseph Proye of Malincourt.

Daughter Marie Joseph GRASSART was married on 3 December 1780 in England at St Matthew's Bethnal Green to Lambert Dupuy, her surname recorded on the record by the clerk as GRANSOR. Her cousin Louis Bantigny and father Jean Jacques acted as her witnesses, Jean Jacques signing his own name on the same document as as GRANSAW. She later applied without success to the French Hospital in old age giving her maiden name at that time as GRANDSER/GRANSER.

Jean Jacques youngest child, daughter Elizabeth Ann GRANSART married into the London Huguenot MANNEKEY family and also applied to French Hospital in old age, succesfully in her case, dying there in December of 1835.

As an aside this family did attemp to reclaim some of their land (forefeited on their fleeing) in 1775 as shown below:

On August 24 1775, Mr Ogier, royal notary and lawyer of London, composed power of attorney in due form to the advantage of one Pierre Philippe Bastien, presently of London, soon to depart for Cambrésis:

["For the sale of an acre of garden situated in Quiévy belonging to Abraham Delporte, only son of the late Jean Philippe Delporte, making his living as a linen weaver and Marie Barbe GRANSART, widow of aforementioned Jean Philippe Delporte, his mother, both residing in the parish of Christchurch, Spitalfields, County of Middlesex, the witnesses were Jacques Delporte and Louis Bantigny, inhabitant also in London"]


Marie Barbe GRANSART was Jean Jacques' sister of course, Jean Philipe Delport his brother in law, Abraham Delporte and Louis Bantigny, his nephews. Their lawyer was a member of the leading and most influential Huguenot family in East London's Silk Weaving industry, the Ogiers of Moncoutant, Poitou.

I think I have the burial of Jean Jacques wife Margeuritte in the non conformist burial ground at Bethnal Green 21 April 1822 recorded as 'Margaritt GRANSHAW'

To date though, not been able to find a burial for Jean Jacques.


Regards


Richard
Bellenger, Sebire, Soubien, Mallandain, Molle, Baudoin - Normandy/London
Deverdun, Bachelier, Hannoteau, Martin, Ledoux, Dumoutier, Lespine, Montenont, Picard, Desmarets - Paris & Picardy/Amsterdam/London
Mourgue, Chambon, Chabot - Languedoc/London

Holohan, Donnelly, McGowan/McGoan - Leitrim, Ireland/Dundee, Scotland/London.

Gordon, Troup, Grant, Watt, McInnes - Aberdeenshire, Scotland/London

Offline MervynG

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Re: Granshaw origins
« Reply #14 on: Friday 06 April 18 21:57 BST (UK) »
Hi Gaie and Richard,

I may be late to the party but as it has been going on for a few hundred years maybe its not too late!

Researching the Granshaws I still feel uncertain about the 1700's. You have both provided quite detailed information which is fascinating. Where did this all come from as I can't find anything of this calibre.

I'm off the Huguenot library next week but would like to find as many sources as I can for the information you have collated and I am happy to collaborate where I can be of help.

Regards

Mervyn Granshaw

Offline richarde1979

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Re: Granshaw origins
« Reply #15 on: Friday 06 April 18 23:24 BST (UK) »
Hello Mervyn

Been quite a while since I looked into this family. Glad the info I found has been of help. Good luck with your search at the Huguenot Library, hope you can build upon the information already found.
Bellenger, Sebire, Soubien, Mallandain, Molle, Baudoin - Normandy/London
Deverdun, Bachelier, Hannoteau, Martin, Ledoux, Dumoutier, Lespine, Montenont, Picard, Desmarets - Paris & Picardy/Amsterdam/London
Mourgue, Chambon, Chabot - Languedoc/London

Holohan, Donnelly, McGowan/McGoan - Leitrim, Ireland/Dundee, Scotland/London.

Gordon, Troup, Grant, Watt, McInnes - Aberdeenshire, Scotland/London

Offline MervynG

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Re: Granshaw origins
« Reply #16 on: Monday 09 April 18 18:17 BST (UK) »
Hi Richard,

Please can you let me know your sources for all this information?

Apart from the Huguenot library I will also call in at the London Metropolitan Archives as all the other Bethnal Green Spitalfield's registers seem to be there.

I have also found a similar tree on a French site geneanet.org where a Stéphane Desmeuraux evidences the Grassarts.

The stumbling block is that no one I can see can link Thomas Grassart, husband of Susanne(a)(ah) Blariau(ieux) to the Grassart family. His wedding to Susannah has a source but I cannot find his birth, baptism or death or any links at all. You even said, 'likely their son Thomas' but provided no dates. Why do several people make the connection I wonder? According to the French genealogical sites, Grassart is a common name in the north so why and where is the connection and why with this Grassart family?

Stéphane does not list a Thomas as a son of Jean Jaques G and any of his three wives.


I have a small spreadsheet of this era highlighting the differences of opinion but cannot seem to attach it?

Mervyn

Offline MervynG

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Re: Granshaw origins
« Reply #17 on: Tuesday 12 March 19 12:36 GMT (UK) »
Very regrettably I believe Richard's main assumption to be incorrect although much of the Jean Jacques story is true.

Jean Jacques 'missing' child was in fact Jacques Joseph. Sometime after his first wife, Marie Rose Lengrand, died 23/3/1755 a few days after childbirth of Constance Grassart 19/3/1755, he started a relationship with Élizabeth Cartigny. She, however, had had a son baptised before she and Jean Jacques married on 14/1/1759. This is why on the marriage record it says (in French) that their child was legitimised on marriage.

The reason Richard did not pick up on this is that the scribe recorded the event as Jacques Joseph 'fils de Lisabet Quateniye fille de libre condition natif de Saint Hilaire' i.e. Jacques Joseph was born and baptised 17/8/1758  a mere five months before his mother and father married. As we all know, scribes were not always that competent or consistent and always relied on what they heard and thus, Lisabet Quateniye can not be anyone other than Élizabeth Cartigny.

This leads then to the question, who was Thomas? I have now assembled a tree of over 900 Quiévy area Grassarts. Amongst them are 8 Thomas's. Only one fits the timeline. I am happy to share with anyone who is interested.