South Lancashire Regiment soldier

[km1971]

OSD = Ordnance Store Department.

Although a different corps to the RA they were based near the RA batteries and a lot of ex-RA men transferred to them, as they were used to handling 'ordnance'.

In the history of the Logistics Corps they say that the name OSD was only used 1875 to 1877 (ish) but I have found it referred to in the 1890 Army List.

Use of the rank of Warrant Officer started in the supply corps around 1879, 30-35 years before it was in general use in the army.

Ken

[princessblackfoot]

Thanks Ken

That would appear to solve identification of my mystery soldier. The photograph is almost certainly then my great great grandad William Heard. That would mean the photograph was probably taken around 1875-6 and is him with the young Elizabeth, John Josephs future wife.

If he was in the Royal Artillary and 16 years later, when Elizabeth married, had transferred to OSD that would fit very well.

Unfortunately all I know of him is that he was stationed at some point in the Isle of White, where he met his wife and at some point served in India.

I feel more research coming on,

Thanks for all the help

Aly

[JeannieR]

Aly.......

As a starting point.....

1871 census

Artillery Barracks, South Shoebury, Essex.

William HERD / age 22 / single / Head of Company / Corporal Royal Artillery / born Bristol

RG10 1670 125 33

JeannieR

[km1971]

Hi Aly

I had some spare time today and found him in the Muster Books and Pay Lists for the 2nd Battalion of the South Lancs. Regt. In both he is 1026, with his name given as John Lappin - ie no 'g'.

In January to March 1888 he is a Corporal Lance Sergeant in the Straits Settlements. The battalion was split between Singapore and Penang.

In April to Sept 1886 they are based in Natal (South Africa). He is a Corporal in the Mounted Infantry Company, and it gives the interesting information that he had joined the 2/SL from the 1st Battalion of the Royal Irish Fusiliers on 5 May 1886.

Unfortunately I don't believe the previous Muster Book for the 1/RIF has survived. I certainly could not find it in the index. If I get a chance in a few weeks time I will see what else I can find.

Do you have any information that will give an approximate year of birth? To be a Coproral in 1886, he was probably born before 1865.

Here is a list of the daily pay the various ranks received at the time (7 days a week):

= Senior Sergeants 3s to 5s 6d per day
= Colour Sergeants 3s
= Sergeants 2s 4d
= Lance Sergeants 2s
= Corporals 1s 8d
= Lance Corporals 1s 3d *
= Drummer 1s 1d
= Private 1s
= Boy 8d

* L/Corps often spent a year as unpaid, waiting for a paid vacancy

Ken

[princessblackfoot]

Hi Ken

thank you for putting in all this time for me it is much appreciated.

His marriage certificate (1890) indicates that he was born in 1865, but if Jeannie R is right (thanks for your help too Jeannie) and he is the son of Mary Judge and John Lapping, he would have been born in Liverpool in1859. I have been in touch with another branch of this family and they also had two birth dates for John, the same as mine, but he disappears from the census records after 1861. The lady told me that John Lappin (father) was a Mariner from Ireland and may have ben in the habit of taking his young sons to sea with him.

He may also have gone back to family in Ireland where his mother and grandfather Owen Lapping came from. That could explain it if he started out in the Royal Irish Fusiliers. I know that he was also in the 1st South Lancs when he died.

It also states on his marriage certificate and his son Alberts birth certificate (1895) that he was a Colour Sergeant.

Cheers

Aly

[km1971]

Hi Aly

I have amended my last post. He was a Lance Sergeant in 1888. I knew there was a reason I put the two ranks in bold.

Ken

[JeannieR]

Aly......

Don't wish to confuse you more, but have just come across this 1871 census.

1H 17 Court , Norfolk Street, St Thomas , Liverpool.

John Judge / head / age 53 / labourer / born Ireland
Bridget Judge / wife / age 43 / born Ireland
John Judge / son / age 23 / labourer / born Ireland
Peter Judge / son / age 17 / labourer / born Liverpool

Patrick LAPING / grandson / age 7 / born Liverpool
Ann LAPING / grandaughter / age 5 / born Liverpool

I can find no sign of John snr, Mary or John jnr

in later census , no Ann , but Patrick seems to end up in Northumberland , where there are a few Irish Lapping/ Lappin.

I wonder if this is the John Lapping , who married Mary Judge......

1841 census

Newcastle on Tyne

Patrick Lapping / 28 / labourer / born Ireland
Agnes Lapping / 28 / born Ireland
JOHN LAPPING / age 6 / born in County / no
Thomas Lapping / age 2 / born in County / no

Regards

JeannieR

Ps. I have just realised, that I put the name of Mary Judge , as head of house , on the 1861 census details , I posted....it shoulld be Bridget....

[princessblackfoot]

Hi Jeannie

Thanks for the information, after your help last time I did find this census record and through a different website managed to get in touch with Ann(ie)'s grandaughter who still lives in the Merseyside area. It is the same family and that is the John lappin who married Mary Judge, The lady was able to provide certificates for their marriage. according to the certificate John was a "Mariner" and it was assumed by their family that when the lads (John and Patrick ) got old enough, they went to sea with him. What "old enough" was in those days I am not sure. I have also found a death record for 1866 for a John Lapping, born Liverpool 1859, So I need look in the Parish records to see if it is the John, son of Mary and John. If so I have to start all over again.

I do know from that family that the three children were all born in Liverpool as was John Snr, but his father was Owen Lapping who came from Ireland.

Ah well,

Thanks for everything

Aly

[princessblackfoot]

Hi Ken

thanks for your persistance, I just wonder if he actually got as high as Colour Sergeant or whether that was a flight of fancy too, and if he did gain the higher rank what he did to be demoted. It would be great if we could have a time machine.

Thanks for your help

Aly