Author Topic: Parker the roving mariner . Census request 1861  (Read 9915 times)

Offline Cell

  • RootsChat Aristocrat
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,716
  • Two words that can change the world "Thank You"
    • View Profile
Parker the roving mariner . Census request 1861
« on: Monday 07 February 05 01:56 GMT (UK) »
Hi,

A  big ask , I don't know if Pembroke discs are  easily searchable by  searching on a name, transcribed, like some of  my Glamorgan ones are. But if they are , could anyone be ever so very kind to have look for my lost  from home John Parker. Please don't bother if they are not very easily searchable, and you need to scroll through hundreds of original images to find people. My Carmarthen ones are like this, not transcribed at all, and would take hours and  of searching for a "missing person" . I don't want to put anyone out.

John Parker ( born Oystermouth/Mumbles/ Swansea) occupation Mariner, he should be around 22 yrs of age in 1861 ( he was  born in July  1838, well he was christened  in Oystermouth on the 9th Sept 1838  at two months old , I have the parish record for him from the archives).

He may be with his new wife called Catherine ( sometimes goes by the name of  Kate) , who's maiden name is Rogers.

I have him in all censuses in Glamorgan ,  Oystermouth (41, 51, 71, 81, 91 and 1901), bar the 1861 one. He and his mother  ( Elizabeth Parker - widow, disappear from  Glamorgan   in 1861. Then he and his mum are  back home  again in 1871 , nice and  safe and sound , and none the worst for their wear ;D. He is back with a lovely wife from Pembroke. Who I know nothing about except her maiden name was Rogers ( have birth cert's for their kids)


 So I'm thinking  John's  mother, Elizabeth (  born about 1810/11) has gone missing too in 1861  because she is up in Pembroke having a jolly good  time  at her Son's wedding, or  she is checking out her son's new bride  to be, like some mums do. Maybe she went there to drag him  back home to Oystermouth lol. ( I can't find a marriage for him in Swansea, so  he probably married his wife in her home town in Pembroke)

His wife Catherine ( sometimes kate)  is born in Pembroke ( something David's, I can't make out the word before David's) ) . She should be around 20/21 yrs old, and it's around this time  ( 1861) they would have got married. 

So I'm thinking he maybe in Pembroke for 1861 census , with him being a mariner, met  and  probably married his wife there. Then  he came back  to  his home town in Oystermouth, Glamorgan in  the 1871 census with  his lovely  Pembroke wife.

Thanks for any help finding my very lost  sailor in 1861  ( I'm trying to track down his wife's side . Finding  out where John  is in 1861,  may help   me in finding more about his wife Catherine from Pembroke ) :)
Census information in my posts are crown copyright www.nationalarchives.gov.u

Offline shirleyannmarie

  • RootsChat Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 175
    • View Profile
Re: Parker the roving mariner . Census request 1861
« Reply #1 on: Monday 07 February 05 12:13 GMT (UK) »
Hi
i have looked up 1861 and 1841 for your Catherine Rogers/ Parker, and her family in St Davids in Pembroke can find no Rogers family at all in either time scale. Perhaps her father was a sailor to and they moved about alot.
the Pembroke Cds are not indexed so you have to trawl through, if you get another lead as to an area i will look it up for you again

good luck with your lost sailor,
regards shirleyannmarie
Orr,Reay,Burns,Mcmeekin,Henderson,Horgan-Ireland
Horgan,Morgans,Richards- Wales
Dale,Clark.Tattersfield-England

Offline Cell

  • RootsChat Aristocrat
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,716
  • Two words that can change the world "Thank You"
    • View Profile
Re: Parker the roving mariner . Census request 1861
« Reply #2 on: Wednesday 09 February 05 03:16 GMT (UK) »
Thank you  so much for looking at st David's.

They could be anywhere in Pembroke ,  or even Devon, but  I thought where Catherine was born , or where she said she was born ( St David's) may be the the more likely one.  He had family in Devon England,Ilfracombe ,which is just a short boat ride across  from Oystermouth/Swansea, ( where John's  father was born). So perhaps he met his  Pembroke wife there, like you say her family may be sailors too. They could be anywhere.

These sailing families are  a pain to trace, I wish they'd stay in one spot.

Thank you again for you  looking for my lost sailor and his wife  :)
It's now back to the drawing board.
Census information in my posts are crown copyright www.nationalarchives.gov.u

Offline shirleyannmarie

  • RootsChat Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 175
    • View Profile
Re: Parker the roving mariner . Census request 1861
« Reply #3 on: Wednesday 09 February 05 10:53 GMT (UK) »
Hi,
Have you tried this site,

http://www.welshmariners.org.uk

I found it on a  list i belong to hope it helps
Regards shirleyannmarie
Orr,Reay,Burns,Mcmeekin,Henderson,Horgan-Ireland
Horgan,Morgans,Richards- Wales
Dale,Clark.Tattersfield-England


Offline Cell

  • RootsChat Aristocrat
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,716
  • Two words that can change the world "Thank You"
    • View Profile
Re: Parker the roving mariner . Census request 1861
« Reply #4 on: Thursday 10 February 05 02:30 GMT (UK) »
Hi Shirley, Yes I've tried that, I've had that link stashed away in my Favorites for some time now , and have found 2 people of mine listed on it  in the past . The other one is this  link I have   for Swansea http://www.swanseamariners.org.uk/swanseamariners.php . No luck with John though on either of them

  Thank you for your help  :)
Census information in my posts are crown copyright www.nationalarchives.gov.u

Offline Radfordda

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 16
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Parker the roving mariner . Census request 1861
« Reply #5 on: Friday 30 January 15 12:57 GMT (UK) »
Hi Cell,

Hope you are well! Did you ever manage to solve this mystery? I think I found Catherine(Kate) Rogers(Parker) in the 1961 census. She is in Oystermouth as servant, she is listed at Cath Rogers with a birth year of 1841 which matches our previous facts. Her place of birth is listed as Pembrokeshire so looks like its the correct one. This means John Parker and his mum are located elsewhere. Maybe they are in Osyermouth but somehow have avoided being recorded?

Do you have any idea when John Parker died? Also I am trying to find out more about his dad William Parker? Do you know when he died etc?

Here is the 1961 entry

Thos   Howell   Head   Married   Male   64   1797   Publician   Oystermouth, Glamorgan, Wales
Ann   Howell   Wife   Married   Female   57   1804   -   Oystermouth, Glamorgan, Wales
John   Howell   Son   Unmarried   Male   25   1836   Mason   Oystermouth, Glamorgan, Wales
Cath   Rogers   Servant   Unmarried   Female   20   1841   Servant   Pembrook

Alan,

Offline Cell

  • RootsChat Aristocrat
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,716
  • Two words that can change the world "Thank You"
    • View Profile
Re: Parker the roving mariner . Census request 1861
« Reply #6 on: Monday 02 February 15 01:54 GMT (UK) »
Hi Alan, good thanks :),
Yes I found that entry years ago thank you.
When did John die? Not sure  of the exact month and day without ordering the death cert.
There is this one in 1917, I don't know if it is 100% him , but it certainly looks to be him:
Parker John M 78 Gower 11a 1046  ( making him born abt 1839 - which would fit as he was born  9th sept 1838)

I know  that he has never used an M as a middle name in any of the known records including his birth , but  there  a baptism for one of his children that fell between censuses in 1874 ,with a middle name of Morgan that I found in the burials in the archives many years ago.
 Baptism :John Morgan Parker 17th July ( address old bank in Mumbles)
father- John ( occupation Dredger)
Mother -Catherine
Burial - John Morgan Parker 14th March 1876 age 18th months ( All Saints)
Also his mum ,Elizabeth 's maiden name was Morgan, so I think that death above in 1917 is sort of ]safe to say it is him. I have found no other possible deaths for him around.

John is not buried in All Saints, I did look at the books in Swansea archives and also went into  the church a few years ago. They seemed to think that many of the old seamen got buried up in Danygraig cem. I didn't check there,  I didn't have enough time. His wife Catherine died 9th October 1895 her record is in  All saints Oystermouth  ,so she'll be buried there somewhere ( find her grave, maybe she is with family)

Their daughter Kate parker is buried with George W  and Fred and Phyllis up in Oystermouth cem . Kate and George names  are not on the gravestone, but they are  definitely buried in the grave , it was their grave  with just them in it until recent burials of his son and daughter-in-law.  Recent family erected a stone and just put their own parents  Phyllis then Fred on it  .


William Parker's death? - I haven't got a clue, There is no burial for him in All Saints that I have ever come across, He could have died anywhere, especially on a boat . There is a death reg over in Neath in 1838 ( the year John was born) ,but it would be impossible to tell without the death. There may not even be a normal death record for him, he may have been lost at sea.

He could have died anytime between 1837 and 1851 ( as in the 41 census although he's not there, we don't know if is Elizabeth is widowed or not until  the 51- although she probably is widowed in 1841 as no other children come along after John)

It's a long time since I've last done this side, so I'm looking through my files whilst typing this. I've certs, baptisms, photos , graves  of the parkers all over the place.
Anyway no, to John's exact date of death, I looked for his burial record in the arcives and the church was I was back home but found nothing (  and haven't ordered the likely death cert above that is probably him). And  his dad William , I know I never  did find out when he died,  I looked for a death at sea record , everything ( including newspapers), and have just drawn blanks on his death.

Kind Regards :)

PS Regarding Aubrey, the son-in-law and the will of George ,it looks as if  someone contested the will. I think it was probably his son Fred, as I know from Fred's daughter that family members was urging her father at the time to do something about it.
  The  further grant of George's will was over 38 years later, it was on the 12/ 6 /1979), there is a hand written note under the entry in 1941 giving the ref to the entry in 1979 , which was not on the ancestry images . https://probatesearch.service.gov.uk/#calendar)

Census information in my posts are crown copyright www.nationalarchives.gov.u

Offline Cell

  • RootsChat Aristocrat
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,716
  • Two words that can change the world "Thank You"
    • View Profile
Re: Parker the roving mariner . Census request 1861
« Reply #7 on: Monday 02 February 15 04:31 GMT (UK) »
Hi
Forgot to say ,  we probably won't find John in a census in 1861, he is most probably out to sea. I have a record of  some of his voyages ( 1853 to 1857)  Register of merchant seamen from FindMyPast, he joined up as a boy. There's a good chance in 1861 he also may be on a ship somewhere. Doesn't account for his mum though ( I once looked through every single page in Oystermouth 's 61 looking for them just in case they've been mistranscribed ,  so I don't where she could be -she is hiding )
Kind Regards
Census information in my posts are crown copyright www.nationalarchives.gov.u

Offline Radfordda

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 16
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Parker the roving mariner . Census request 1861
« Reply #8 on: Monday 02 February 15 11:02 GMT (UK) »
Thanks Cell, this is really helpful! It’s certainly a bit of a mystery with Elizabeth Parker missing in 1861! I can understand John being missing as a seaman but I would doubt he took Elizabeth with him to sea! Have you explored the workhouses in Swansea at this time? Or maybe she was just hiding! I can see Danygraig burial records have been transcribed and are available on CD, I will have to explore this avenue to see if any Parkers are there!  Was John Parker a member of the lifeboat?

Me and my dad were in Mumbles over the Christmas period for a afternoon and visited the headstone of Fred and Phillis, and you had previously told me that George and Kate are also in the same grave. As it happens my other great grandparents are buried a few rows over from them. I expect they probably only ever met at my grandparents wedding! I have spoken to your hubbies mum a couple of time on the phone, but not for the last year or so. I will have to call and arrange to meet her when I’m back in Wales again (I live in London now). We also discovered Freda and Captain Jack Williams grave stone too in Oystermouth cemetery while we were there too. I have a photo if you want it. We also had the location of Barbra(Nellies) and George Hoskins grave but there was no headstone or any markings.I think Barbra and Georges only son emigrated to Austrailia!

As it happens we went into the Park Inn after the cemetery (My dad’s old local in the 60s) for a drink, and to our surprise a photo of Freda’s husband Jack Williams still remains of the wall! (he had a bit of a legendary status my dad said). My dad was born in Park Street in the 40s. I think a few lived in park street and Gloucester place. He was staying with Freda and Jack as my granddad was away with the RAF during WW2. My dad was very fond of his uncle Jack Williams, who used to take him down to the lifeboat.

Do you know much about what happened to the other sisters such as Aillen, Gertrude,Catherine, Enid etc? My dad said when he grew up he only remembers Fred, Nellie and Freda and his mum Georgina of course. I get the sense my gran was only close to a few of her siblings although my dad does sort of remember Ethel. He also mentioned he had a cousin something Bevan who lived with them for a short time and he was a train driver. He also vaguely remembers one aunt who lived Wetbourne Place who had a nice car that she never took out of the garage, and he was desperate to buy it off her!

At my Grandmothers Georgina’s funeral in 83 my mum and dad both remember speaking to Fred about the issues with the Will. They remember that he said he spend years of his time trying to fight it! They can’t remember the full story but suggested a husband or son of one of the sisters had more than they should, or something like that!

On the George Williams side. What do you know about his several siblings? I know nothing of such. I discovered most of their birth dates on FindMypast school records. I found the obituary of the father David Williams in the newspaper archives, which I can send if you don’t have it.

Glad all is well

A