Kate Eade - continued

[Daisy Loo]

Just seen something else...

Looking at Kate Eade's marriage cert on the other thread, and the witnesses are: W allen, and a Daisy Allen.  Could that have been a married Daisy Bennett, at her sister's wedding?

[Billycourty]

Thanks everyone, when you have so many branches on your fmaily tree, so many certificates, it all gets hard to remember ,  i am going to go eyeball all my certs and see what i can find.

and decide what to order up.

will keep you all informed

Jay

[waiteohman]

Hello

I think I found them on the 1891

Mary White, head, married, 36, born Petworth Sussex (no occupation)
Archie Eade, son, 10, scholar, born Ash, Surrey
Rose Eade, dau., 6, scholar, Ash Surrey
Catherine Eade, dau, age 5, Ash
Daisy White, dau., age 3, Ash
Ada White, daug., age 1, born Hounslow, Middlesex
William Bennett, lodger, single, age 76, Labourer, born Sunbury, Middlesex

There's the birth of an Archie EADE, Farnham, Sep qtr 1881

If you consider a 7-9 month pregnancy she would have been pregnant with Archie Eade at the latest most likely February 1881 and that is considering the registration of his birth was in the same month born. Looks like she left James Roe (as he is living on April 3, 1881 - i.e. she is listed as married on census) for Caesar Augustus Eade on or before February 1881. She could not legally marry Caesar. Archie would have been illegitimate when conceived. Sure looks like a marriage will not exist for Caesar and Mary.

Linda

[waiteohman]

Hello

The 1891 is the census aged 36 where she is Mary White and lists born Petworth, all others seem to be Littleworth, Sussex. In 1881 she is 28, 1901 49. Birth age is never consistant. Appears Mary would have been born in the 1850s.

Update - proved not the case: I suspect Mary Hawkins could very well be illigitimate if this is her found on IGI:
Mary Jane Hawkins christened March 30, 1860, Petworth, Sussex
Mother: Mary Hawkins
If this is the case, Horace could very well be the father's name and very difficult to prove or disprove. This birth is registered in March 1860 quarter in Petworth on England BMD. Could it be a late registration. Anyway one to consider.

Update: Karen has let me know that Mary Jane Hawkins is aged 1 on 1861 census living at Petworth Workhouse, Sussex. Mary Hawkins aged 23 is also listed on the page.

Linda

[JAP]

This summary is for my own benefit (I was fast losing track!).  Congratulations everyone on great finds.

It now seems almost certain that Kate EADE, the mother of Millie EADE b 1912, is the Kate EADE, b 1885, daughter (illegitimate?) of Mary HAWKINS/ROE/EADE later WHITE/BENNETT & (probably) Caesar Augustus EADE.
If this is correct, then it explains why Kate got the name of her father wrong as he died before she was born - she would not have known him.  Perhaps she just picked on the given name of one of her half-brothers, Horace.

Mary HAWKINS's maiden name is not yet confirmed.
It is probably HAWKINS in the light of the 1874 baptism of Charles HAWKINS in the IGI (mother Mary HAWKINS, no father named).  From age in censuses, it seems that Mary HAWKINS was born ca 1852-1855.  Her birthplace is given as Sussex - Fittleworth in 1881, Petworth in 1891 and Littleworth in 1901.
There is the birth of a possible Mary HAWKINS Mar qtr 1851, Chichester, Sussex - Chichester included Fittleworth which was later taken over by Petworth.  This birth is probably the same as the following from the IGI - Mary HAWKINS bap 28 Jan 1851, parents Josiah HAWKINS & Phoebe.  A Josiah HAWKINS m a Phoebe CHEATER, 28 Sep 1849, Pulborough, Sussex.
ROE seems to be a married name.
EADE is probably just an assumed name - no marriage to Caesar EADE has been found.
WHITE seems to be a married name.
BENNETT seems to be a married name

This scenario still fits with the family's idea that Kate was considerably older than her husband Arthur MORRIS.  Their ages were given as 25 and 21 on the marriage cert but Kate would really have been 28.
And it leaves yet to be solved the question of which family Kate worked for - it's still possible that it was the Kennedy O'Brien MARTYN family especially as one of Kate's MORRIS sons was named Kennedy O'Brien/O'Brian MORRIS possibly after either or both of Kennedy O'Brien MARTYN snr & jnr).
And it still leaves unresolved the question of who was Millie EADE's father.
 
1874-1875
Mary HAWKINS has:
Charles HAWKINS b Mar qtr 1874 Thakeham, Sussex
(bap 28 Feb 1874, Pulborough, Sussex, mother Mary HAWKINS, no father named)
Ellen HAWKINS b Mar qtr 1875 Thakeham, Sussex

1875-1880
Mary HAWKINS marries James ROE, Dec qtr 1875 Thakeham, Sussex
They have:
Horace ROE Dec qtr 1876 Thakeham, Sussex
Alice ROE Mar qtr 1880 Petworth, Sussex

1881 census
EADE Caesar Augustus, Head, unmarried, 25, Ag Lab b Ash Surrey
(Caesar's baptism in 1858 can be found in the IGI.  He is a son of Richard Ede & Sarah, and has siblings William 1846, Elizabeth 1848, Emily 1850, and - possible twin - Alice 1858)
ROE Mary, Servant (Housekeeper), married, 28, b Fittleworth, Sussex
and Mary's children
HAWKINS Charles 7 b Pulborough, Sussex
HAWKINS Nelly 6 b Pulborough, Sussex
ROE Morris (transcription error for Horris/Horace?) 4, b Pulborough, Sussex
ROE Alice 1, b Byworth Petworth, Sussex

1881 Sep qtr
EADE Archie b Farnham

1883 Dec qtr
EADE Rose b Farnham

1885 Mar qtr
Caesar Augustus EADE, age 29, dies Farnham Surrey (on the border of Surrey, Sussex & Hampshire)

1885 Sept qtr
Kate EADE born Farnborough (an alternative name for Farnham) - birth cert needed

1886 Dec qtr
Mary EADE marries in Farnham; a Thomas WHITE is on the same page

1891 census
Hounslow, Middlesex
WHITE Mary, married, Head, 36 b Petworth Sussex
EADE Archie, 10, b Ash Surrey
EADE Rose, 6, b Ash
EADE Catherine, 5, b Ash
WHITE Daisy, 3, b Ash
WHITE Ada, 1, b Hounslow
BENNETT William, lodger 76 (??), single, labourer b Sunbury, Middlesex

1898 Sep qtr
Mary EADE marries at Brentford; a William BENNETT is on the same page

1901 census
BENNETT William Head 57, wireworker, b Sunbury, Middlesex
BENNETT Mary Wife 49, b Littleworth, Sussex
EADE Kate Stepdaughter 16, b Ash, Surrey
BENNETT Daisy Daughter 13, b Ash, Surrey
BENNETT Ada Daughter 11, b Hounslow, Middlesex

1909 Dec qtr
Daisy Louisa BENNETT marries in Farnham, a Walter Ernest ALLEN is on the same page

1912
Photo said to be of Kate EADE working as a Nanny with the three children she was looking after.

1912 December
EADE Millie born Hackney, mother Kate EADE, no father named.

1913 December
Kate EADE, 25 (really 28) marries Arthur Henry MORRIS 21.  Witnesses are Daisy ALLEN (presumably Kate's half-sister) and W. ALLEN (presumably Daisy's husband).  Kate gives her father's name as Horace.

JAP

[JAP]

Here is a website which indicates that Mary HAWKINS, daughter of Josiah HAWKINS & Phoebe CHEATER, is "our" Mary HAWKINS.  See:

http://web.aanet.com.au/~dennisonline/hawkins/pafg05.htm

It takes the HAWKINS family back several generations from Josiah.

It says that James ROE was still alive in the 1891 census.

JAP

[Daisy Loo]

Nicely put JAP   I was trying to get it all straight in my head, and there it all is...

Reading it set out like that, does all seem to fit.  It woul also make more sense coming down to the right Kate Eade living as a stepdaughter with the Bennett family.  I think what threw Jaymee at first, is that the child of Ada, stepsister to Kate Eade, married the child of Kate Eade, giving them a common grandmother....to put it simply, a first cousin married a first cousin.  Which isn't so unusual, I have been told.  (I actually have it in my family)  In fact doesn't that make more sense, than two entirely seperate families?

We haven't confirmed who the father to Kate is, but I do suspect Caeser Augustus Eade, as mother Mary is certainly not shy in putting all the different surnames down for her children!  (What a complicated life she must have had!)

If James Roe was still alive in the 1891 census, would explain why there will not be a marriage between Mary & Caeser Eade, as he died in 1885.

(JAP, if I gave you all my files on my family tree, would you lay it all neatly out like that for me???!  )

[Billycourty]

Thanks JAP you certainly deserve all your stars.

I hate seeming rude by not posting, its just confusing and i am thinking about how i move forward, so because i am digesting and not up to knowing how i am planning to move forward i dont really have anything new to add.

But one thing seems clear, my family is a load of serial Illegitimate child breeders.  AND if MAry is my great great grandmother on both sides, she has done a very good thing in giving her children their fathers names even if its not leagal, other wise it would have been impossible to find any info of the family on either my grandmothers father or mother's side.

Even now we cant be sure she had my great grandmother to the father she thought she did, but that historical paper trail is all we have.


THe fact that both my grandfather's and grandmother's lines stop in the same exact place, i.e cant be researched.  Points to this crazy twist of people being true.

Also its crazy that because of the family link i might have been given a clue as to who their familie are behind them that i would never have been able to find.

BUT tell me, if you think the two Kate Eades are the same person listed in two different houses on the census, as we see a Kate Eade with parents in 1901 and with step parents in 1901,

Or you think the one i have listed with father william mother ellan is not a relivite at all....and its the one living listed as stepdaughter is the true Kate Eade, and the other just has her name?

Jay

[JAP]

Daisy Loo,

I'm afraid that I can't think straight unless everything is set out in order  

Kate EADE and Ada WHITEorBENNETT were half-sisters i.e. they had the same mother (Mary HAWKINS) but different fathers.

Their children (Millie EADE from Kate and Ernest A PIZZEY from Kate's half-sister Ada) were therefore not even full 1st cousins; just half 1st cousins.
Like you I have marriages between 1st cousins in my records (especially on my children's side).  Very common, I think, especially in small villages.  My children's Scottish Ggggparents were not only 1st cousins but were also differently related at a generations remove.
The situation of Millie and Ernest wouldn't have been at all uncommon (though sometimes the church wasn't all that keen on 1st cousin marriage)  - especially as they weren't even full 1st cousins.

Difficult to know whether Mary HAWKINS was actually free to marry when - at various times - she did!  As you say, Mary obviously had a complicated life.

Jay,

Let's hope you have a win at the lottery and can buy all the relevant certificates!!

Best wishes to all,

JAP
PS: Jay, I've just read your post.  No, I'm sure that Kate EADE, daughter of William & Ellen, is NOT the mother of Millie (that was just a hypothesis which has now been knocked right out of the water because of all the other relevant connexions of Kate EADE who was with the BENNETTs).  The mother of Millie is surely Kate, the daughter of Caesar EADE & Mary HAWKINS (or whatever name Mary had at the time).
But who knows what the relationships were of all the various EADE and other families that were around at the time ...  That's another matter altogether!
PPS: Jay, stars are no indication at all of quality - just quantity