Author Topic: st. ninians churchyard help  (Read 41161 times)

Offline apanderson

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Re: st. ninians churchyard help
« Reply #18 on: Tuesday 10 February 09 19:15 GMT (UK) »
Dave

Sorry - mistake on my part.
Helen's date of death is listed as 1869, not 1869 which I typed in earlier post. (I've now amended it to 1860)

Does this make a difference?

I'll post the Forrest ladies after I have my tea!  ;D

Fergie

Don't ever feel you can't or shouldn't ask - you ask all you want!! It's the only way we find things out.

I have copies of the 2 Books - Pre-1855 Monumental Inscriptions (by Mitchell & Mitchell) for both East and West Stirlingshire. These contain the inscriptions from all the stones they found when they surveyed all the older Graveyards/Churchyards in the late 60's/early 70's. Not 100% reliable but a fantastic resource to have.

There's loads of Stevensons/Stivensons listed + a wee sketch where all the stones are within the Churchyard. Let me know if you want a note of them. It would be better if you sent me your personal e-mail by PM. That way, I could send you stuff direct

Anne




Offline Fergie38

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Re: st. ninians churchyard help
« Reply #19 on: Tuesday 10 February 09 19:27 GMT (UK) »
Some of your info is post 1855 and that is why I was asking.

I would be grateful for any info on Stevenson's there.
(And it will save me having to climb the wall)   :)

PM is being sent with email address.

Cheers
Ferguson (Stirling & Parish of Kincardine) Stevenson (Bannockburn) Cowan (Stirling) McLean (Glasgow,  Dundee & Skye)

Offline daval57

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Re: st. ninians churchyard help
« Reply #20 on: Tuesday 10 February 09 19:33 GMT (UK) »
Dave

Sorry - mistake on my part.
Helen's date of death is listed as 1869, not 1869 which I typed in earlier post. (I've now amended it to 1860)

Does this make a difference?

I'll post the Forrest ladies after I have my tea!  ;D

Anne


That makes more sense.  Thanks.  And the ladies would be brilliant.  My wee project is fairly coming along.  I've added details of about 250 Stirlingshire Forrests over the last few days.
-------------------
FORREST (Glasgow, Lanarkshire, Stirlingshire and Dunbartonshire)
ROONEY (Co Down, Co Antrim) 
BORTHWICK, FORTUNE, BARKER, SIVES (Lothians)
ANDERSON (Moray, Caithness)


Offline apanderson

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Re: st. ninians churchyard help
« Reply #21 on: Tuesday 10 February 09 20:06 GMT (UK) »
Forrest Ladies: (& Spouses)

1.
1808 John Rankin     M. Forrest
(Presumably husband & wife?)

2.
1813
John Jenkins     Marjory Forrest
(Presumably husband & wife?)

3.
1815
Robert Jenkins     Margret Forrest
(Presumably husband & wife?)

4.
Next North Wall
1858
Alex. Johnston, surgeon, Stirling died 25.9.1857 age 57
Wife Marion Forrest died 24.5.1886 age 87
Eldest son William, M.D. died at Stirling, born 10.7.1828, died 7.4.1901
His wife Georgina C.B. Blair born 29.12.1841, died 20.12.1913

5.
1826
Robert Crawford    Isabell Forrest
(Presumably husband & wife?)

Offline daval57

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Re: st. ninians churchyard help
« Reply #22 on: Tuesday 10 February 09 20:10 GMT (UK) »
Thank you Anne.
-------------------
FORREST (Glasgow, Lanarkshire, Stirlingshire and Dunbartonshire)
ROONEY (Co Down, Co Antrim) 
BORTHWICK, FORTUNE, BARKER, SIVES (Lothians)
ANDERSON (Moray, Caithness)

Offline Fergie38

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Re: st. ninians churchyard help
« Reply #23 on: Tuesday 10 February 09 23:26 GMT (UK) »
Thank you for the list of names and the chart Anne.

Looking at the chart though I wondered if the rest of the burial ground is logged anywhere.
Looking at my second photo earlier on this thread, you will see a square grassed area centre left between the main road and the cemetery wall.
I don't think there are any stones or markers in there but I could be wrong. This piece of ground was used for the burial of non-Christians. I was first learned this when, as a lad, I watched the funeral of a man by the name of Peter Murray and told that he was being interred there because he was a communist. That would have been about the late forties or early fifties.
I have, over the years seen signs of other burials there but like most people, when I was younger I wasn't interested in things like that.
This being a Church of Scotland cemetery, I wonder if the ban not only applied to non Christians but included non Protestants. ??

Cheers.
Ferguson (Stirling & Parish of Kincardine) Stevenson (Bannockburn) Cowan (Stirling) McLean (Glasgow,  Dundee & Skye)

Offline apanderson

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Re: st. ninians churchyard help
« Reply #24 on: Wednesday 11 February 09 00:19 GMT (UK) »
Partly right and partly wrong I think.

To my knowledge, there was always part of Churchyards put aside for 'Paupers Graves' where 'the parish' would bury the deceased rather than the family (sort of thing). This is now called 'Common Ground' and all (or nearly all) cemeteries still have this area or areas for folk who can't afford a private lair/plot, so this might be the case in St. Ninians. The burials are still recorded by the Cemetery Records Offices, so they know exactly who's where, but it is not permitted to erect stones. I would imagine it was the same before the cemeteries existed, i.e. the churchyards.

In my own personal experience, I was doing some research for a lady who's sister had died in infancy and was buried in Logie Churchyard Extension. Although this baby had been buried in 'Common Ground', I got a map from Viewforth which showed all the lairs in that particular piece of ground and I was able to pinpoint exactly where the grave was for her.

As for other denominations - I don't know. I believe that Roman Catholic burials have to be in 'consecrated ground' but I don't know how that would work on a Common Ground Section as the family wouldn't have any say as to where exactly the grave would be.

Also worth bearing in mind is the fact that 'Church of Scotland' now is quite a recent term. I don't have any knowledge about dates when all the different churches 'sorted themselves out' but I don't doubt over the years the rules and regulations differed.

Anne

P.S. You're very welcome to the info.

P.P.S. Were you standing in the middle of the road to take that second picture?  ;)

Offline Fergie38

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Re: st. ninians churchyard help
« Reply #25 on: Wednesday 11 February 09 12:17 GMT (UK) »
Thanks once more Anne.
The gentleman I mentioned as being buried there was in no way a pauper. He had a thriving grocery/general store in the village of St Ninians that was carried on my his wife for many years after his death.
I had more or less forgotten about this section of 'common ground' until I saw your chart.
I was standing on the pavement when I took the photo so as to get as far away from the subject as possible. In the end though, I couldn't get far enough away and the image is made up of two merged shots.

Cheers.
Ferguson (Stirling & Parish of Kincardine) Stevenson (Bannockburn) Cowan (Stirling) McLean (Glasgow,  Dundee & Skye)

Offline Fergie38

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Re: st. ninians churchyard help
« Reply #26 on: Wednesday 11 February 09 19:08 GMT (UK) »
I was in St Ninians today so decided to nip round to the old cemetery. The gate was locked so I thought I would tackle a quick jump over the wall.
After my third attempt, I realised that I was not only to old for this scrambling and clambering carry on but that I was certainly the wrong weight and definitely the wrong shape. I did finally manage it thanks to a wedge shaped joint where two walls meet.
The first thing that struck me was the scale of the vandalism that has been carried out over the years and if any of the perpetrators who would now be adults, ever looked over the wall and felt proud of there handiwork. This cemetery desperately needs some TLC and restoration work done as a matter of urgency.

You were right Anne about there being no grave markers in the ‘Paupers’ section.

You were also correct in suggesting a fore rather than an after noon visit as the sun was right in my eyes because all the stones face northwesterly, facing the church.

Sad sights indeed.










The restored Steeple.

Cheers.
Ferguson (Stirling & Parish of Kincardine) Stevenson (Bannockburn) Cowan (Stirling) McLean (Glasgow,  Dundee & Skye)