Author Topic: Eliza Smith b. 1876, Caunton Notts  (Read 9689 times)

Offline patrish

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Re: Eliza Smith b. 1876, Caunton Notts
« Reply #9 on: Saturday 24 January 09 22:40 GMT (UK) »
There is a Betsy Smith aged 16 single a  servant living at Marnham, Nottingham  in 1891 but it gives born Balderton . :(

RG12/2642/60/9
this information is Crown Copyright. from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk   London Hall, Thurston Stanley, Phillips, Ayrton, White, Morrish, Smith.    West Ham/Barking Saint,Briggs,   Essex  Barker,   Hampshire  Kill, Kent Spong,   U.S.A Earp, Scotland/Cumbria Templeton, Devon Morrish, Chudley

Offline babygirl101

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Re: Eliza Smith b. 1876, Caunton Notts
« Reply #10 on: Sunday 25 January 09 08:51 GMT (UK) »
This looks like a definite possibility doesn't it - although as always proving it seems highly unlikely. I wonder why she changed her name and PoB, seems inconsistent with the rest of her life somehow.

Now my mind's working overtime - I wonder if her illegitimate child could be the son of the Joseph that was also working there, it would sort of be an obvious leap of faith??? or maybe/probably completely wrong ???  It might explain why she named the child Joseph Markham (slight change from Marnham to make it less obvious) - any thoughts on that one???

BG  :)
Murden - Warwickshire & Nottinghamshire
Bower - Nottinghamshire (mainly Newark)
Crowder - Mansfield Nottinghamshire & Devon
Price - Newark,  Nottinghamshire
Ingleton - Skillington, Lincolnshire
Smith - All parts of Leicestershire, Nottinghamshire & Lincolnshire especially Wisdom Smith, Robert & Evening Smith

Offline patrish

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Re: Eliza Smith b. 1876, Caunton Notts
« Reply #11 on: Sunday 25 January 09 09:12 GMT (UK) »
Hi BG,

Its not really a change of name Elizabeth has so many variations, Eliza, Betty, Betsy, Beth , Liz, Lizzie the list goes on. ::)

Quote
wonder if her illegitimate child could be the son of the Joseph that was also working there

I think thats a distinct possibiity  they usually named them after the father when they were illegitimate, I would just keep an open mind until you are able to... if at all to  find anything to substanciate this.

Quote
t might explain why she named the child Joseph Markham (slight change from Marnham to make it less obvious) - any thoughts on that one???

My answer to that one is the same as before, anything is possible, see if thats any help.  :-\

I will try and find out where Balderton is in  relation to Caunton.
this information is Crown Copyright. from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk   London Hall, Thurston Stanley, Phillips, Ayrton, White, Morrish, Smith.    West Ham/Barking Saint,Briggs,   Essex  Barker,   Hampshire  Kill, Kent Spong,   U.S.A Earp, Scotland/Cumbria Templeton, Devon Morrish, Chudley


Offline babygirl101

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Re: Eliza Smith b. 1876, Caunton Notts
« Reply #12 on: Sunday 25 January 09 09:20 GMT (UK) »
Trust me, I keep a very open mind on these things, especially where the Smiths were concerned, there are so many of them and they keep changing their names etc, the relationships amongst the gypsies is complex to say the least, hehe!! To date though, Eliza has been the most straightforward of them with the exception of this piece of the jigsaw, especially as she's stuck with Eliza throughout the census returns - maybe she just fancied a change?

Balderton is near Newark and about 17 miles from Edingley, Elizas family home, and 12 miles from her PoB, so it's feasible that, for some reason Balderton was given as her PoB.

BG  :)
Murden - Warwickshire & Nottinghamshire
Bower - Nottinghamshire (mainly Newark)
Crowder - Mansfield Nottinghamshire & Devon
Price - Newark,  Nottinghamshire
Ingleton - Skillington, Lincolnshire
Smith - All parts of Leicestershire, Nottinghamshire & Lincolnshire especially Wisdom Smith, Robert & Evening Smith

Offline patrish

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Re: Eliza Smith b. 1876, Caunton Notts
« Reply #13 on: Sunday 25 January 09 09:25 GMT (UK) »
Yes Smiths are a nightmare my husband has them in his family  ::)

As she was in service it may be that her employers called her that, especially if there was already an Eliza in the household
this information is Crown Copyright. from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk   London Hall, Thurston Stanley, Phillips, Ayrton, White, Morrish, Smith.    West Ham/Barking Saint,Briggs,   Essex  Barker,   Hampshire  Kill, Kent Spong,   U.S.A Earp, Scotland/Cumbria Templeton, Devon Morrish, Chudley

Offline babygirl101

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Re: Eliza Smith b. 1876, Caunton Notts
« Reply #14 on: Sunday 25 January 09 09:31 GMT (UK) »
Poor hubby!!! I thought with names like Bower and Crowder it would be easy to research, but a couple of generations back and we start with the Smiths - my heart sank!!

The sounds quite possible. Any suggestions as to how I could verify any of these leaps of faith as I can't begin to think how on earth I can prove any of this?

BG
Murden - Warwickshire & Nottinghamshire
Bower - Nottinghamshire (mainly Newark)
Crowder - Mansfield Nottinghamshire & Devon
Price - Newark,  Nottinghamshire
Ingleton - Skillington, Lincolnshire
Smith - All parts of Leicestershire, Nottinghamshire & Lincolnshire especially Wisdom Smith, Robert & Evening Smith

Offline patrish

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Re: Eliza Smith b. 1876, Caunton Notts
« Reply #15 on: Sunday 25 January 09 09:47 GMT (UK) »
We could try to trace this Betsy in 1901 to elminate her but of course she may have married but I will take a look later.
this information is Crown Copyright. from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk   London Hall, Thurston Stanley, Phillips, Ayrton, White, Morrish, Smith.    West Ham/Barking Saint,Briggs,   Essex  Barker,   Hampshire  Kill, Kent Spong,   U.S.A Earp, Scotland/Cumbria Templeton, Devon Morrish, Chudley

Offline babygirl101

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Re: Eliza Smith b. 1876, Caunton Notts
« Reply #16 on: Sunday 25 January 09 10:07 GMT (UK) »
Just tried the 1901 census and there's nothing that immediately jumps out as being her, but as you say she could have married, so I'll try looking at marriages next.

BG  :)
Murden - Warwickshire & Nottinghamshire
Bower - Nottinghamshire (mainly Newark)
Crowder - Mansfield Nottinghamshire & Devon
Price - Newark,  Nottinghamshire
Ingleton - Skillington, Lincolnshire
Smith - All parts of Leicestershire, Nottinghamshire & Lincolnshire especially Wisdom Smith, Robert & Evening Smith

Offline larkspur

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Re: Eliza Smith b. 1876, Caunton Notts
« Reply #17 on: Monday 26 January 09 19:33 GMT (UK) »
There is an Eliza Smith age 15 domestic servant  her birth place is given as "Cleton" although looking at the page it is very difficult to work out. She is with the Kirk family at Hucknall Torkard.
There is another one aged 16 living in Sneinton with her 17 yr old sister Clara .Both born Nottingham.
Another Elizabeth Smith aged 16 born Sutton- a few villages away from Caunton- living as a domestic servant in Newark with a Smith family.
AREA, Nottinghamshire. Lincolnshire. Staffordshire. Leicestershire, Morayshire.
Paternal Line--An(t)(c)liff(e).Faulkner. Mayfield. Cant. Davison. Caunt. Trigg. Rawding. Buttery. Rayworth. Pepper. Otter. Whitworth. Gray. Calder. Laing. Wright. Jackson. Taylor.
Maternal Line--Linsey. Spicer. Corns. Judson. Greensmith. Steel. Woodford. Ellis. Wyan. Callis. Warriner. Rawlin. Merrin. Vale. Summerfield. Cartwright.
Husbands-Beckett. Heald. Pilkington. Arnold. Hall. Willows. Dring. Newcomb. Hawley.