Eliza Smith b. 1876, Caunton Notts

[Sasha]

Seeing as you're drawing a line under this one, thought I'd add another theory. 

Have you tried looking for Markham as a forename and not a surname?  There's a few Markham's in the Nottingham area in 1891.  There's one, Markham Bailey, in Radford, who has a 15 year old daughter who is a cigar maker.  Doing a search for an Eliza Smith in Radford there is one boarding with a family surnamed Bamer (?) who's age and birthplace is out (born c.1873 Radford, but she could have just been dittoed along with the rest of the family), and who is a cigar maker.

Interestingly, Markham Bailey's wife is an Esther in 1881 and 1901, but a Henrietta in 1891.

Do you have any idea what Eliza's occupation was at the time?

Jo.

[babygirl101]

Jo

It's feasible, just as some of the other suggestions are, which makes me think I'll never find out for sure.

Where I'm struggling is that Eliza has maintained her PoB on all the other census returns, along with her name - Eliza.

Her parents Hawthorn Smith & Lydia Ingleton/Smith (d/o Eliza Ingleton who was married to Robert Smith, s/o Robert & Evening Smith) settled and remained in Caunton/Edingley, until they died, so I can't see why Eliza would travel so far away from her extended family at the age of 15.

I know that she had a son Joseph Markham Smith in 1895 (my gran knew him, so I know that's factually accurate) and have been told that there were rumours that Joseph was the illegitimate son of the local blacksmith, so I've also been checking out blacksmiths for each of the suggestions made and again no luck - this of course may just be hearsay.

I was also been told earlier this week that a relative of Josephs recalls going with Joseph to visit someone he called ' granny Clark', who apparently bought him up, although the 1901 shows him living with Elizas parents, so, as yet I can't find anything to substantiate that piece of information.

She's proving to be a complete pain the ****

BG       

[Cheryl16]

I am getting heartliy sick of Great Grandma Eliza! How can she just disappear. Sadly she is now right under my skin and I am determined to find her in 1891! She has to be around somewhere. I have even taken to talking to her Daughter in Laws wedding ring to get an answer .  How sad am I.

I have just come across a distant relative who has done loads of work around the family in Edingley so a letter to him is next on the cards.

Thanks everyone who is trying to help.

[babygirl101]

Cheryl

You're getting seriously sad, but then so am I, let me know if you have any luck, I'm putting this to one side for a while before "our Eliza" drives me totally nuts hehe!!!

BG 

[ruthtree]

 Hi, Your quest intrigued me and I have also looked in vain, reading further postings, I realise I was on the same line with finding their marriage in 1880. So could Eliza be in mothers maiden name?  In 1871  Hawthorn and 'Lidd' are in Leicestershire in a Gipsy cart, Lidd was declared as his unmarried sister,both of Skillington, she was probably pregnant with Robert who was born in Leic. (? ) -  birthplaces varies with nearly each census, good job his name is unusual!  Not so for you with Eliza. In 1861 Hawthorne is with parents in Glasgow, birth Glasgow for all. in 1851 with family in Lanarkshire. Could she be visiting one of them?  Might explain why not showing up. Who else in the family is not there in 1891? There are other Hawthorne Smiths - could she be with extended family on either side?
 Would granny Clark have any bearing on her brother Clark ?
I cannot find Lydia in 1861, or her birth in the partial index or free BMD.  Happy hunting......Ruth

[babygirl101]

Thank you so much for your reply and welcome to the mad house, we all seem to spend an eternity looking for missing dead people here - Eliza being the bane of my life right now hehe!!!

The general opinion about Eliza is that she's disappeared into a black hole somewhere, along with many others of the same family -  very much a gipsy trait I'm afraid. I keep finding people on one census then losing them for 10/20 years and then up they pop again, using a slightly different name, PoB slightly different and age - well that's anyones guess  - I think they just made it up as they went along - bless!!! lol.

You're quite correct about Hawthorn & Tidd (or Lidd) in 1871, they're not brother and sister as shown, Lidd being a variation on Lydia, his wife. Sadly though, this Hawthorn was very much born and bred in England as was Lydia. I've had a look at your suggestion of Glasgow, but sadly it's not them.

Lydia is on Free BMD, but again, as if to confuse she's on the March 1/4 1853 as Lydia Smith Cox, apparently Robert her father also couldn't make up his mind and used both Cox & Smith as it suited, but her mother was Eliza Ingleton who definitely married a Robert Smith - it says so on her marriage certificate - phew!!

As for where Lydia was in 1861 - well now you've reminded me I'd better start looking for her again - although I half suspect she's also in another black hole!!

Best Wishes and many thanks for your help and interest

BG 

[Cheryl16]

Hi
I have given up on Eliza in 1881. She is my great grandmother. I know exactly where she was in the other censuses. Eliza Ingleton married Hawthorn (Orthorn) Smith and they settled in Edingley, Nottinghamshire, where they brought up 8 children, Eliza being just one of them.

The Granny Clark mystery still remains, but it is possible she was a neighbour of Hawthorn and Lydia. One of their children, my Great Aunt Beatrice boarded with another family close by and their neighbour was Mary Ann Clark. She had a grand daughter of roughly the same age so Granny Clark may have been a "courtesy" title.

Lydia is Lida in the 1861 census see below

1861 England Census
about Robert Smith
Name: Robert Smith
Age: 3  
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1858
Relation: Son  
Father's Name: Robert
Mother's Name: Liza
Gender: Male
Where born: Melton, Leicestershire, England
  
Civil Parish: Melton Mowbray  
County/Island: Leicestershire  
Country: England  
  
Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage: .
  
Registration district: Melton Mowbray  
Sub registration district: Melton Mowbray  
ED, institution, or vessel: 4  
Neighbors: View others on page  
Household schedule number: 185
Household Members: Name Age
Robert Smith 30  
Liza Smith 30  
Robert Smith 3  
Lida Smith 8  
George Dennis 16  
 
 
By the way both Lydia and Hawhorn are buried at st Giles Church,Edingley, Notts

Are you researching this family?  They all stayed local to Leicestershire, Nottinghamshire as far as I can see. You will find loads more info here in Rootschat... look out for posts by BabyGirl! She has tremendous knowledge of the family on the Smith side.


Cheryl

[Cheryl16]

Thanks BG got there almost before you on this one. Yoou posted as I wrote.
 Cheryl

[babygirl101]

Great minds eh Cheryl lol