Mary Ann Smith/ Bradley/ Burnside Guisborough. Are they the same person?

[stroudie]

I wonder if anyone can help.

My ancestor Mary Ann Smith later Grout seems to have untraceable origins.
She was born possibly in Guisborough 1831-9. The 1901 census says 'Eggevan' - I can find no such place and wonder if this is a mispronunciation of Hovingham.

She is not apparent on the 1841, 51 or 61 census.

In 1871 she has a 3 yr old son called Joseph Smith, who is given as born in Guisborough, but no record of his birth or baptism is found.

On her marriage certificate she gives her father as John Smith

She has associations with a family called Burnside or Burnsides who are mostly hawkers and some of whom come from Hovingham. 

There is a Mary Burnside who is in Guisborough in 1851 but not found later and there is no obvious marrage.

There is also Mary Bradley in Guisborough in 1861 with a 4 yr old son called Joseph. I can't find a marrage or a later census record. Her husband is James Bradley born in 'Ovingham'.

This is quite a conundrum and I wonder if all three Marys could be the same person. If anyone has any links, information or suggestions, I'd be delighted.

[Ecneps]

Hello Stroudie

Welcome to Rootschat!   

Just had a look at the 1901 census image, it shows her birthplace as Oggivan near York, and 1891 census shows Guisborough, no such place that I know of near Guisborough, so probably does mean Hovingham, as you suggest, and possibly just a census mistake

Will have a look through earlier census for you, hope we can help

Kind regards,
Barbara
 

[Ecneps]

In 1871 she has a 3 yr old son called Joseph Smith, who is given as born in Guisborough, but no record of his birth or baptism is found.

I see the family is in Brotton near Guisborough in 1871 - son Joseph Smith is 14  -  so born c1857/8

middlesbrough-indexes has a birth for a Joseph W Smith in Guisborough district in 1858
http://www.middlesbrough-indexes.co.uk/search.php
you could perhaps contact the register office to check the parents' names before buying the cert

There is also Mary Bradley in Guisborough in 1861 with a 4 yr old son called Joseph. I can't find a marrage or a later census record. Her husband is James Bradley born in 'Ovingham'.

Mbro-indexes also have a birth for a Joseph Bradley 1857 Guisborough.  James' birthplace is given as Coxwold, Mary's as Ovingham
Like you, I can't yet see the Bradleys in 1871 census

Barbara

[Ceeoh]

Hi, got quite a surprise when I saw your request!  Hope someone can find her.

Margaret

[Ecneps]

Why, Ceeoh, are you related or researching the same family? 

I saw Charles Grout was in Whitby in 1861, but they married in Durham.  Maybe she was just living with James Bradley in 1861, I can't find a marriage, and if she had married him she wouldn't have been Smith on her marriage to Charles, I take it you have that cert, stroudie?

Barbara
 

[Ceeoh]

Hi Barbara,
Yes Mary Ann Smith was my great grandmother.  Stroudie and I are related, we've been seeking this old duck for years but she just won't be found!!  She is interred with her husband Charles in Guisborough Cemetery.  Mary Ann seemed to have produced the illegitimate Joseph around 1856/57, (I think he was 13 or 14  1871 census) when she met Charles we don't know but must have been 1861/62 as they had their first child Charles in Guisborough in 1863, the second John William in Brotton in 1865, and the third (my grandfather) George Henry in 1868.  Then they went off to County Durham to get married, (why there unless there was something to hide!?), came back to Yorkshire and continued their family with Edward (Stroudie's antecedent), Brotton 1872, and Emma Guisborough 1874.

On Charles's birth registration (1863) she gives the following (Stroudie obtained the birth certificate):
Charles Grouth. Father Charles Grouth Smith, mother Mary Smith formerly Smith and her mark X

A devious lady methinks!!

My aunt knew quite a lot about her grandfather Charles, but apparently Mary Ann never told anyone anything about herself. 

Hope to be in Guisborough in May and will visit her again, perhaps she'll relent and let us know her history!

Margaret

[Ecneps]

Quite a few tangles there then, Margaret!

Have you thought of having a look at Joseph's birth cert to see what that says, should be interesting

 

[Ceeoh]

Birth Certificate for Joseph - good idea.  Will put it on the list our visit in March to May.

Margaret

[Ceeoh]

Re birth certificate for Joseph - just put my thinking cap on.  Stroudie went that route and the only one registered in Guisborough didn't fit.

There was (if I recall correctly) a Mary or Mary Ann Smith on the 1851 census age about 15 working for a family in Skelton or Brotton.  Have no way of knowing if this is "our" Mary - but where was she in 1861!!  Don't think Joseph was Charles Grout's son, Charles was in Loughton 1851 census and Whitby 1861 census - in between I don't know.

Margaret