Author Topic: My Big Brick Wall - Im Desperate!!!!!  (Read 2012 times)

Offline chrissy

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My Big Brick Wall - Im Desperate!!!!!
« on: Friday 11 February 05 08:30 GMT (UK) »
Hi Rootschatters,
  Ive been trying to find info on this certain part of my family for nearly 2 years now,and Im stumped!!!To the best of my knowledge-
 John Davidson married Martha paine.
 3 children-Thomas Pain b1 april 1834,dunoon&kilmun-d bruthen(victoria)-1898,hes my ggggrandfather.
 Mary Davidson-b10 march 1849 dunoon & kilmun(No other info at all on mary).
 John Davidson b 1december1852 Dunoon & kilmun(no other info on john has been found).
  After reading through my notes ,it FINALLY occured to me that their is 15 years differance between thomas and the others, And the other two are born very close together.
 Could the other 2 children be from another marriage?are they his siblings?Who are these children?
 Ive searched LDS and found info etc ,but I cannot find anything concrete on -         john ,martha,mary or john jnr!
I have all details on thomas in Australia, up till present day family-ME!!!!!
 Can anybody help me please,this is really bugging me............chrissy :-\
Davidson,Payne/Paine-Dunoon/Glasgow/scotland,Sherlock-cheshire,king -female convict-7 years nsw,french-tasmania,sewell-hubbys side,O brien- Cochrane-guernsey-india .Morehouse-Kirkburton-yorkshire. Gippsland-davidson,flood,baker,rose.Chambers..Bungaree.Chambers ..county clare,Kane county clare.

Offline Sue Thomas

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Re: My Big Brick Wall - Im Desperate!!!!!
« Reply #1 on: Friday 11 February 05 08:43 GMT (UK) »
Certainly looks like a 2nd marriage to me. Mary & John are the children of John Davidson and Martha Paine whilst your ggggrandfather Thomas is obviously Martha's son. As the surname is the same either she was married before to someone with the surname Paine or the first child was born out of wedlock. Any ideas on this?
As I was typing this I kept misspelling Paine as Payne.......have you tried this variation?
O'Connell, Robinson, Conway, Cunningham (Liverpool and Ireland)
Smith, Vallis, Fry (Somerset), Horrocks (London), Neighbour (Bucks).
Lookup information is for personal research purposes only and is Crown Copyright from National Archives

Offline chrissy

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Re: My Big Brick Wall - Im Desperate!!!!!
« Reply #2 on: Friday 11 February 05 08:55 GMT (UK) »
Hi sue,
 Ive tried pain,payne,paine ,Ive posted on every relevent surname forum!. I have no idea if it was a 2nd marriage,Looks like it may be,Information is very scarce on these individuals,and I dont know if he was born out of wedlock?.......chrissy.
Davidson,Payne/Paine-Dunoon/Glasgow/scotland,Sherlock-cheshire,king -female convict-7 years nsw,french-tasmania,sewell-hubbys side,O brien- Cochrane-guernsey-india .Morehouse-Kirkburton-yorkshire. Gippsland-davidson,flood,baker,rose.Chambers..Bungaree.Chambers ..county clare,Kane county clare.

Offline Jane Taubman

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Re: My Big Brick Wall - Im Desperate!!!!!
« Reply #3 on: Friday 11 February 05 20:20 GMT (UK) »
Have you tried getting a birth certificate from Scotlands People for one of the younger children.  I presume you have searched there for the marriage to John as the certificate could show if Mary was married before.  I do not have any scotish ancestors, but I understand although civil registration did not start till 1855, there are indexes for some earlier records.

See http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/sct/Civil.html
and
http://www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk/

Sorry if you have already tried these.
Taubman, Mitchell, Purcell - Lancashire,
Couglan, Byrnre - Ireland
Mullins, Bowditch, Crabb, Record - Dorset


Online carol8353

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Re: My Big Brick Wall - Im Desperate!!!!!
« Reply #4 on: Friday 11 February 05 20:44 GMT (UK) »
I had a few credits left for www.scotlandspeople so looked up one of them for you.Found this.....birth.

 8 Apr 1849 DAVIDSON MARY   Parents JOHN DAVIDSON/MARTHA PAINE
Frame number FR612 F
Place ....DUNOON AND KILMUN 510/00 0003 No Image available.

Carol
Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Online carol8353

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Re: My Big Brick Wall - Im Desperate!!!!!
« Reply #5 on: Friday 11 February 05 21:00 GMT (UK) »
And found this on the IGI

JOHN DAVIDSON 
Birth:  01 DEC 1852 
Christening:  24 NOV 1855   Dunoon And Kilmun, Argyll, Scotland
 Parents:   Father:  JOHN DAVIDSON   Mother:  MARTHA PAYNE     


~~~~~~~~
 
MARY DAVIDSON 
 Birth:  10 MAR 1849   
  Christening:  08 APR 1849   Dunoon And Kilmun, Argyll, Scotland
 Parents:  Father:  JOHN DAVIDSON    Mother:  MARTHA PAINE 

No luck finding young Thomas though.Sorry.


Carol
 

 


 
Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline scotmum

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Re: My Big Brick Wall - Im Desperate!!!!!
« Reply #6 on: Friday 11 February 05 21:52 GMT (UK) »
oops..mistake...removed.
"Trees without roots fall over!"
 
""People who never look backward to their ancestors will never look forward to posterity." - Edmund Burke

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Offline JAP

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Re: My Big Brick Wall - Im Desperate!!!!!
« Reply #7 on: Saturday 12 February 05 01:34 GMT (UK) »
Chrissie,

From the IGI (records extracted from the Old Parish Registers):
Parents John DAVIDSON and Martha PAINEBOTH
Thomas DAVIDSON,  b 1 Apr bap 19 Apr 1834, Dunoon & Kilmun, Argyll, Scotland

Parents John DAVIDSON and Martha PAINE
Mary DAVIDSON, b 10 Mar bap 8 Apr 1849, D & K

Parents John DAVIDSON and Martha PAYNE
John DAVIDSON, b 1 Dec 1852, bap 24 Nov 1855 D & K

What are the names of Thomas's parents on his death certificate?

Have you looked at the above entries on the film of the D & K OPR?  You could order it in to your local LDS Family History Centre.  It may not give anything more than the bare facts extracted into the Index - but it is always possible that it might have something more (e.g. the residence or occupation of John snr) which might help.  And might show whether PAINEBOTH is a transcription error.

FreeCEN (at http://freecen.rootsweb.com/ )  has the family in the 1841 census - but under the name DAVISON!

Hillfoot Street, Dunoon & Kilmun
John DAVISON, 30 (remember, ages were rounded down to the nearest 5), Laborer, born Ireland
Martha DAVISON, 30, b Ireland
Thomas DAVISON, 7, b Argyllshire
Martha DAVISON, 2, b Argyllshire
John DAVISON, 2m, b Argyllshire
Donald MCQUEEN, 30, Police Officer, born Scotland but not in Argyllshire
Walter MCPARLAN, 25, Flesher, born Scotland but not in Argyllshire

Presumably the John who was 2m old in 1841 must have died as the name was re-used for John b 1852.

Remember that Statutory Registration did not start in Scotland until 1855.  And many marriages and baptisms  before this were not recorded, or the records have not survived, or the records have not been transcribed.

You could search for the deaths of John snr and Martha snr on ScotlandsPeople as it is quite likely that they survived until 1855 or later - death certificates normally show the names of parents.  You can search using wildcards e.g. Martha DAVI*SON.  Deaths of married women were also indexed under their maiden names, if known.  So you could also search for Martha PA*NE*.  If you find an entry for each name with the same reference number, you will know you probably have the right person

You could also order the films of the 1851 and 1861 D & K censuses in to your local LDS FHC - the family was still there when the second John jnr was b in 1852 and bap in 1855.

Regards,

Judy 




 

Offline chrissy

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Re: My Big Brick Wall - Im Desperate!!!!!
« Reply #8 on: Saturday 12 February 05 02:45 GMT (UK) »
Hi judy,
 Thank you so much for your efforts to help me find them!I havent been able to purchase a death certificate as yet,for thomas,but will as soon as financially possible(school fees etc etc!!!!!)I also found the name Paineboth and was just searching for it again ,when you replied!
 I was totally unaware of infant john,who possibly died.Im going to get to a lds centre asap and check this out,ill try your suggestions with the names.thank you very,very much.....chrissy.ps the name paineboth doesnt seem to exist-not even on google!
Davidson,Payne/Paine-Dunoon/Glasgow/scotland,Sherlock-cheshire,king -female convict-7 years nsw,french-tasmania,sewell-hubbys side,O brien- Cochrane-guernsey-india .Morehouse-Kirkburton-yorkshire. Gippsland-davidson,flood,baker,rose.Chambers..Bungaree.Chambers ..county clare,Kane county clare.