Author Topic: Hearsey/Salmon family Hon East India Co  (Read 45596 times)

Offline crystalight

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Re: Hearsey/Salmon family Hon East India Co
« Reply #18 on: Wednesday 06 July 11 21:08 BST (UK) »
Hello again Stetson,


FYI, the second link you provide (From Holy Himalayas) is actuallly an extract from Almoriana, as stated at the end of the extract itself. I had already come across that. Which is why I thought Almoriana possibly may have some more info. As I live in India, it is an easy matter for me to source the book at the nominal Rupee price. If I then find any additional info, I will surely let you know.

I was only looking for any new info on Hearsey, over and above what is found in Pearse and other books, as I am planning to visit Mussoorie and Landour, possibly in October, after the rains.

I would be grateful to hear, if indeed you find any additional info from Almoriana.

Now I am jealous of your visit to Mussoorie etc!  I remember vividly reading up on the area and about Hyder Young Hearsey's trip to the source of the Ganges, the holy lake of Mansarowar, the mountains and his pictures. I was fascinated by all the stories I could find.

I have also been a little intrigued by his parentage as some books site Andrew Wilson Hearsey as the father whilst others call him the "guardian" and just who was the native Jat lady - I guess we will never know for sure? It's all so interesting. I enjoyed reading about the expedition of Hyder Young Hearsey and William Moorcroft and their encounters with the Gurkha's

I will be keeping an eye on your blog!
Oakes and Rance - Cheshire
Wright, Teesdale, MacWhirter -Sussex
Wright, Wooldridge and Little - Surrey and London
Grimes - Middlesex and Surrey
Cardy - Surrey
Broyd, Hanch and Lazell - Essex
Bradshawe - Hampshire, London and East Indies
Hearsey - India (British Army), Cumberland and London

Census information is Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

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Offline Stetson

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Re: Hearsey/Salmon family Hon East India Co
« Reply #19 on: Thursday 07 July 11 08:21 BST (UK) »
Hi! Crystal : As to Hyder Young's parentage, though I regard (rightly or wrongly) Pearse's book as the definitive account in most respects, he is strangely silent on the parentage of Hyder.

Also, any references to Andrew Wilson Hearsey (1752 - 98) being Hyder's "guardian" would appear to be mostly from sources written after Pearse who published, I think, in 1905.

I think I have with me some books which state that Hyder's mother was a Jat lady and it is quite likely (though I know I have to produce papers to prove it) that that was the case, gimme some time and I will look those books up. It is more than likely that Andrew Hearsey was Hyder's father through this "marriage" but that, once he married Catharine, Hyder was presented to the world as a ward.

I am sure you know that William Linnaeus Gardner and Hyder Hearsey married sisters (the Cambay princesses).

Thank for your interest in Mussoorie and Landour, fascinating places both. I think I will stay in Rokeby Manor in Landour which was Pahadi Wilson's house, now a very good resort hotel fully restored to its original style. You can see some pics at : http://www.rokebymanor.com/index.html.

Hope you will soon be inspired to check out Mussoorie yourself!  ;D

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Offline crystalight

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Re: Hearsey/Salmon family Hon East India Co
« Reply #20 on: Friday 08 July 11 22:46 BST (UK) »
Hi Stetson

Always happy to hear if you are able to find any more detail about the Hearsey family (or indeed Paris Bradshawe and family!)

Thank you yes, I did know of the Cambay princesses and the marriages.

 :o I am more than inspired to visit, what a beautiful place 8) - I just need a more well paid job and some time!

Cheers
Crystal  :D
Oakes and Rance - Cheshire
Wright, Teesdale, MacWhirter -Sussex
Wright, Wooldridge and Little - Surrey and London
Grimes - Middlesex and Surrey
Cardy - Surrey
Broyd, Hanch and Lazell - Essex
Bradshawe - Hampshire, London and East Indies
Hearsey - India (British Army), Cumberland and London

Census information is Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline Stetson

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Re: Hearsey/Salmon family Hon East India Co
« Reply #21 on: Saturday 09 July 11 07:02 BST (UK) »
Hi! Crystal : "lways happy to hear if you are able to find any more detail about the Hearsey family". Sure, yes, certainly but ,if I do find any snippets on the subject at all, who knows, it may take a long time. Let us see.

Meanwhile, I am sure you know that Hyder Hearsey was a pt competent amateur artist and that his watercolour drawings can be accessed at the British Lib online. But what you may not know is that Mildred Archer, the art historian, wrote that Hearsey's drawings "imbue the Himalayas with shaggy, uncouth splendour"! Rather a nice notion that.

So, I attach one of those pics ("borrowed" from BL), hope it uploads properly.

Offline crystalight

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Re: Hearsey/Salmon family Hon East India Co
« Reply #22 on: Saturday 09 July 11 11:34 BST (UK) »
 ;D Hi Stetson
I have accessed his watercolours in the past but I had not heard that critique.

Still pretty amazing I think, especially given the time frame, unrest and conditions in which he worked, I certainly would not mind owning one!

I wonder which, if any of the travellers depicts Hearsey himself  ::)

Oakes and Rance - Cheshire
Wright, Teesdale, MacWhirter -Sussex
Wright, Wooldridge and Little - Surrey and London
Grimes - Middlesex and Surrey
Cardy - Surrey
Broyd, Hanch and Lazell - Essex
Bradshawe - Hampshire, London and East Indies
Hearsey - India (British Army), Cumberland and London

Census information is Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline Stetson

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Re: Hearsey/Salmon family Hon East India Co
« Reply #23 on: Monday 11 July 11 10:38 BST (UK) »
Crystal : In my previous post I had said that I think Hyder Hearsey might likely have been the natural son of Andrew Wilson Hearsey although the latter claimed to be only the “Guardian” of Hyder. I still stick to this notion although there is a contra indication which I forgot to mention in that post. My only excuse is that I was writing that post  while at work  (in the same way that I am writing this and most other posts!) and easily distracted by the telephone,  a visitor  etc.

Whilst no evidence is given for the statement, the big surprise is that it is Col Hugh Pearse who has written that Hyder was the son of Harry Hearsey, an officer with the Marathas who fell at the Battle of Merta, 1790.  It is in an article written for the Geographical Journal by Pearse (Moorcroft and Hearsey's Visit to Lake Mansarowar in 1812).  The year of publication is 1905, the same year as the book, yet Pearse has not said anything to that effect in the book itself.

No other details are given, so it is very difficult to say whether or not Pearse is right (and if he is, why he did not mention it in the book is a further question). Now, I have not so far been able to find any info about Harry Hearsey but I have yet to look up Duff’s “Marathas” as I have misplaced my 3 set volume somewhere at home (quite an achievement that, as the volumes run to about 3000 pages!). The only doubtful reference I have until now found about Harry H is this (page 97 refers) :  http://oudl.osmania.ac.in/bitstream/handle/OUDL/2348/218796_Proceedings_Of_Meetings_Vol_XI%20-%205.pdf?sequence=2
But,as no first name is given, the reference could equally apply to Andrew H who,  in some accounts,  is said to have started in the Madras Army. And Pearse does not explain whether Harry H was a deserter (ex HEIC Army) or mercenary nor if his Indian wife was a Jat or Rajput or what. I can not find any army lists of that period to look up and, whilst I visit UK 4 or 5 times a year, I am not able to rummage around in BL as prior intimation is needed. My be you might be able to do something in that line?! And I will look up my set of Duff soon (I would think Duff is also on the Internet Archive but let me find my own set).

I came across a snippet of this Pearse article some time back but it was only the first page on a “Pay & Read” site. So I bought a PDF of that article and can mail it to you if you post your mail ID here (or, better still, write to my mail box through my blogger profile). It makes interesting reading about the travels of Hyder and Moorcroft.

I have more stuff to relate to you and some refs to provide but work intrudes! So, later today or tomorrow then! Best.

Offline crystalight

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Re: Hearsey/Salmon family Hon East India Co
« Reply #24 on: Monday 11 July 11 21:14 BST (UK) »
Thank you for the detailed reply Stetson, I too had the name of Captain Harry or Henry Hearsey but have never found out who he was (wondering if mixed up with Harry Hearsey Salmon?) and like yourself believe the father to be Andrew H As you say "curious".

I also have notes that indicate Hyder Y H had three sisters which I have always assumed refer to Charlotte Maria, Marian and Sophia daughters from Andrews marriage to Charlotte Crane but this has never tallied up with the reference to them all marrying officers namely
J.O. Clarkson, Arthur Owen and Sir William Richards KCB.
The above did in fact marry Col Paris Bradshawe, Lt. Col William Broome Salmon (who in fact had a son called Harry Hearsey Salmon!) and Col Francis Hall (who met with a rather gruesome death) respectively

Will PM you my email thanks
Crystal  :)
Oakes and Rance - Cheshire
Wright, Teesdale, MacWhirter -Sussex
Wright, Wooldridge and Little - Surrey and London
Grimes - Middlesex and Surrey
Cardy - Surrey
Broyd, Hanch and Lazell - Essex
Bradshawe - Hampshire, London and East Indies
Hearsey - India (British Army), Cumberland and London

Census information is Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline Stetson

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Re: Hearsey/Salmon family Hon East India Co
« Reply #25 on: Wednesday 13 July 11 08:07 BST (UK) »
Crystal : Hope you found that PDF (Pearse on Hyder & Moorcroft's Manasarovar journey) from the Geographical Journal.

Your question about Hyder's parentage has got me interested in his family tree (I was more interested in his journeys and in what happened to his estates during and after his time ). IPreviously, I had simply relied on Pearse's book but he has contradicted himself in the PDF or at the least confused us. So I will now try to find what info I can on Harry P Hearsey even if no writer other than Blunt states that Hyder was the son of the latter.

Now, I will share with you some more links that I had come across previously and book marked (took me a while to fish them out from my "Favourites" drop down box). It is quite likely that you may know most, or even all, of them but, even so, thee links may be useful to others reading this thread :

http://www.archive.org/stream/asiatickresearc03indigoog#page/n480/mode/2up  This is from the Asiatick Researches, Vol XI and is an account of Hyder, Webb and raper's Survey of the Source of the Ganges undertaken in 1808 and writeen by Raper. Raper really takes you along with him and you get a vicarious feel for the journey!

http://hansard.millbanksystems.com/lords/1857/dec/07/major-general-hearsey-explanation This is by way of a little light relief which I enjoyed. It is an extract from the Hansard relating a debate in the Lords and centres around the question of whether or not Gen J B Hearsey was reprimanded by the Viceroy for exceeding his authority in promoting a soldier!

http://www.archive.org/stream/asiatickresearc02indigoog#page/n398/mode/2up This is an account by Moorcroft of the trip to Manasarovar undertaken by him and Hyder Hearsey in 1812. All of 160 pages and as absorbing as the Raper account.

The best of course, though it only relates to a small but important incident, is the chapter in Charles Allen's "A Mountain in Tibet" in which he relates the story, a canard, spread by the establishment of the day that Hyder had copied a map drawn by Webb and claimed it as his own. But Allen provides proof positive that Hyder Hearsey did no such thing and that the map had, in fact, been drawn by him. That he got little recognition for it nor had his legitimate claim to his estate endorsed by the Raj and the Govt of India is one reason I am interested in the story of HYH. Another, of course, is his exploration and adventures.

One more reason is my attraction for the Himalayas (which I have been to only once but would like to visit again in October). As the Skanda Purana (a sacred Hindu epic) says :

“In a thousand ages of the gods I could not tell thee of the Glory of the Himalayas .…,”

AND

"There are no mountains like the Himalays, for in them are Kailash and Manasarovar"

And Hyder Hearsey did go to Kailsah and Mansarovar, didn't he (being the first to do so with Moorcroft)?!

Hope you agree.

Offline crystalight

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Re: Hearsey/Salmon family Hon East India Co
« Reply #26 on: Wednesday 13 July 11 21:23 BST (UK) »
Thank you Stetson, I did indeed find the PDF  - you will find a reply to your email I hope, listing some of the contradictions I have found about Hyder Hearseys close family.

Although fun to find out, it is also at times very time consuming and frustrating  :-\

The links you have listed are proving to be great reading, I did indeed have the extract from the Hansard about Gen J.B. Hearsey but certainly not that account of the survey of the source of the Ganges, I have started reading - there are some amazing details revealed in there, unfortunately the page loading is very slow today and an error message tells me to check back at another time on the Moorcroft link.
So I will certainly revisit these links again.

Ever since I first found out about my Ancestors living in India, there has been a certain draw and fascination of the area for me, especially of The Himalayas and Tibet, I would like to think that just maybe one day I will be able to visit them.

"And Hyder Hearsey did go to Kailsah and Mansarovar, didn't he (being the first to do so with Moorcroft)?! Hope you agree."


I do agree with your statement above

The Hearsey's seem to have been cheated out of their claim to the estate by the Hon. East India Company from what I have read.
Oakes and Rance - Cheshire
Wright, Teesdale, MacWhirter -Sussex
Wright, Wooldridge and Little - Surrey and London
Grimes - Middlesex and Surrey
Cardy - Surrey
Broyd, Hanch and Lazell - Essex
Bradshawe - Hampshire, London and East Indies
Hearsey - India (British Army), Cumberland and London

Census information is Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk