Author Topic: Marquis of Ailsa household -- Henry Smith, Stud Groom  (Read 10125 times)

Offline Anne Treadwell

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Marquis of Ailsa household -- Henry Smith, Stud Groom
« on: Sunday 22 February 09 03:13 GMT (UK) »
(First, I hope I'm in the right place; I'll send this to the Ayr list as well.) In the 1851 census, my gggrandfather Henry Smith, born about 1815 in Chackmore, Radclive, Bucks., was working as a Stud Groom for Archibald Kennedy Marquis of Ailsa when that family was living at The Priory in Reigate, Surrey.  I believe Henry had also worked for the family earlier as his daughter Eliza Ellen, my gg.aunt, was born/ christened in Kirkoswald in 1849.  Two older children were born in France, my gg.uncle Harry John about 1845 and my ggrandmother Anne Maria about 1847.  Does anyone know of any connections of the Kennedy family with France, perhaps through horse racing?  Family legend has it that Henry worked at some point for the Rothschilds -- does anyone know of a link between the Kennedys and the Rothschilds?  Henry was back in Scotland in 1861, but as a hotel-keeper in Ayr, apparently no longer employed by the Marquis.  I would be very grateful for any clues as to why my ancestor was born in France.
Areas: Bucks. (esp. Addington, Buckingham, Winslow), Herts. (esp. Harpenden, Wheathampstead), Oxon. (esp. Charlton-on-Otmoor, Chesterton, Steeple Barton)
Names:  ADAMS, BRACEY, GRAY, LAMBOURN, TRE(A)DWELL

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Offline KirstyG

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Re: Marquis of Ailsa household -- Henry Smith, Stud Groom
« Reply #1 on: Monday 23 February 09 13:54 GMT (UK) »
The first Marquess of Ailsa, Archibald Kennedy KT FRS died at St. Margaret's, near Isleworth, on 8th September, 1846. His London residence was 1 Whitehall Gardens.
He was succeeded by his grandson Archibald Kennedy (1816 - 1870) whose eldest son and heir (also an Archibald - 3rd Marquess) was born in September 1847. It might be possible to trace where the family were at that time and see if your ancestor was working for them at that point, or possibly for the Rothschilds?

Do you know where in France the children were born?


Kirsty
Galloway,   Landers,   Lindsay,  Gillespie,  Irvine
Erskine,   McAdam,  Hawthorn
Robertson,   Duncan,   Edmonstone,    Black
Anderson,  Nicholson,  Crombie,  MacDonald
Arch, Herbert, Charlesworth, Chapman

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Offline Anne Treadwell

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Re: Marquis of Ailsa household -- Henry Smith, Stud Groom
« Reply #2 on: Monday 23 February 09 16:16 GMT (UK) »
Thanks, Kirsty; I will keep trying that line of research.  Interesting that Henry Smith's sometime-employer's eldest son and heir was born in September 1847 (do you know where?), around the same time that my great grandmother was born in Paris, France.  I suppose, though, that even if Julia (the Marchioness) stayed home for the birth, her husband may possibly have been abroad with some staff .....

Any further information you have about the family's whereabouts in the mid-century decades, or how to find it, would be welcome.  Do you have any idea why they were in Reigate, Surrey, at The Priory, in 1851?  Was Culzean Castle being renovated for them at this time, perhaps?  In addition to the normal domestic servants, they had 4 "grooms" at the Priory, as well as Henry who was not living in but very close, so it seems to have been an equestrian concern of some kind.

Thanks again,

Anne
Areas: Bucks. (esp. Addington, Buckingham, Winslow), Herts. (esp. Harpenden, Wheathampstead), Oxon. (esp. Charlton-on-Otmoor, Chesterton, Steeple Barton)
Names:  ADAMS, BRACEY, GRAY, LAMBOURN, TRE(A)DWELL

Offline KirstyG

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Re: Marquis of Ailsa household -- Henry Smith, Stud Groom
« Reply #3 on: Monday 23 February 09 16:45 GMT (UK) »
I've not been able to find out where the son was born in 1847, everyone seems obsessed with the When but not the Where!

They may have been down south simply because of the House of Lords. It would have been preferable to have the family living in the countryside outside London given they had several young children in the 1851 census and the London smog was pretty terrible back then.

It takes several grooms to look after a few horses, so it may not have been much more than those kept for the carriage and family use. You may find out a lot more from here:
http://reigatepriorymuseum.org.uk/

Galloway,   Landers,   Lindsay,  Gillespie,  Irvine
Erskine,   McAdam,  Hawthorn
Robertson,   Duncan,   Edmonstone,    Black
Anderson,  Nicholson,  Crombie,  MacDonald
Arch, Herbert, Charlesworth, Chapman

Offline KirstyG

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Re: Marquis of Ailsa household -- Henry Smith, Stud Groom
« Reply #4 on: Monday 23 February 09 16:55 GMT (UK) »
From the links page from the museum website you can get to a page which showsa picture of the old stables still standing, and a lot of history of the building and owners. It would appear that Earl Somers owned the Priory in the mid 1800s, and may have let it to the Kennedy family. He was MP for Reigate.

http://www.redhill-reigate-history.co.uk/rt%20priory.htm

Galloway,   Landers,   Lindsay,  Gillespie,  Irvine
Erskine,   McAdam,  Hawthorn
Robertson,   Duncan,   Edmonstone,    Black
Anderson,  Nicholson,  Crombie,  MacDonald
Arch, Herbert, Charlesworth, Chapman

Offline Anne Treadwell

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Re: Marquis of Ailsa household -- Henry Smith, Stud Groom
« Reply #5 on: Monday 23 February 09 17:33 GMT (UK) »
LDS Family search was very helpful in giving the 1847 place of birth and christening as Ayr, but with several different churces within the Kirkoswald area given as the christening place!  (Interesting, but not very important for my own interests; I'm content to know part of the family at least was in that area at the time. )

Special thanks for the Reigate Priory museum site, Kirsty -- I hadn't found it -- and for the suggestion that the House of Lords might have been taken seriously enough for a whole family to move from their castle to be within reach of it!

Anne
Areas: Bucks. (esp. Addington, Buckingham, Winslow), Herts. (esp. Harpenden, Wheathampstead), Oxon. (esp. Charlton-on-Otmoor, Chesterton, Steeple Barton)
Names:  ADAMS, BRACEY, GRAY, LAMBOURN, TRE(A)DWELL

Offline jfd23

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Re: Marquis of Ailsa household -- Henry Smith, Stud Groom
« Reply #6 on: Saturday 09 April 11 21:30 BST (UK) »
Hi, I realise this is an old thread, but it might help you to know that the Rothschilds had Waddesdon Manor near Aylesbury (now National Trust), which is not all that far from Radclive, Buckingham; maybe 10-15 miles. So your ancestor may have worked for them fairly locally to his birthplace, earlier in life.

I'm looking at Smiths and Smithsons of Radclive in the early 1800s & wondered if you have any info on your Smith's father...? Also interested in Lambert/Lambourn of Stony Stratford - any overlap with your Lambourn?

Regards

Jane

Offline Anne Treadwell

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Re: Marquis of Ailsa household -- Henry Smith, Stud Groom
« Reply #7 on: Wednesday 01 June 11 17:24 BST (UK) »
Thank you for this, Jane.  Henry SMITH was born in Chackmore about 1815 and his father was John SMITH (helpful!) about whom so far I have only the following information:

John's first wife Catherine is hard to find; she was the mother of Henry and his older siblings Maria and John.

12 Nov 1821 by banns at St Peter & St Paul, Buckingham
John SMITH wid otp m. Ann TAYLOR spin otp
Wits: Robert NORTH; Charlotte POWELL


Other children of John (his trade was Grocer throughout this time) and wife Ann:
1820   28-Jul   Hellen SMITH
1822   01-Nov   John   SMITH
1827   20-Jun   William Porter SMITH
1829   07-Oct   Martha SMITH
1833   03-Jul   Sarah Ann SMITH
1836   29-Jun   Thomas Porter? SMITH


consistent with 1841 census  -- but John's occupation is then publican

As for LAMBOURN in Stony Stratford -- I don't know of a link yet, but will let you know if I see one.

I did recently find another snippet of info. which might connect Henry SMITH with the Rothschild family -- if you're interested, by all means contact me directly at
           (*)       
...... but I know that information on SMITHs can be irrelevant and overwhelming so don't feel you need follow up.

Anne



Areas: Bucks. (esp. Addington, Buckingham, Winslow), Herts. (esp. Harpenden, Wheathampstead), Oxon. (esp. Charlton-on-Otmoor, Chesterton, Steeple Barton)
Names:  ADAMS, BRACEY, GRAY, LAMBOURN, TRE(A)DWELL

Offline sarah

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Re: Marquis of Ailsa household -- Henry Smith, Stud Groom
« Reply #8 on: Wednesday 16 October 13 12:21 BST (UK) »
I am sorry but Annes emails are no longer working  :'(

Sarah
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