Craigmount Bawhirley Rd Greenock

[Forfarian]

I also have other ancestors from Greenock who appear to have got married around that time in non-church venues.

That's normal. Until towards the end of the 19th century it was the exception rather than the rule for weddings to be held in a church building. Most weddings took place in the bride's parents' home or, if she had no parents or was working a long way from home, in the manse or in her employer's home.

[orkrad]

 Hi Have a look at this website https://digital.nls.uk/directories/browse/archive/87429100?mode=transcription This is 192 Scottish Post Office directory . The first entry at the top of the page is for a  Rev Muir ,Minister of Cartsburn Parish Church. His house ( the manse) is  called Craigmount on Bawhirley Road. This would suggest your relatives were married at the manse ( as Forfarian has pointed out ) rather than in  a church.  It  would be nice to think that the house still exists and I hope Elaine can find it for you. Regards Orkrad

[Forfarian]

Comparing the Victorian Ordnance Survey six-inch maps and the one used by Historic Environment Scotland, it looks to me as if the manse must have been fairly near the junction of Bawhirley Road and East Crawford Street, because only that corner had any buildings near it by around 1900 when the 25-inch map was surveyed.

Six-inch map, surveyed 1896 https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoom=17&lat=55.94065&lon=-4.73725&layers=6&b=1

25-inch map, surveyed about a decade later https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoom=17&lat=55.94065&lon=-4.73725&layers=168&b=1

HES map https://hesportal.maps.arcgis.com/apps/Viewer/index.html?appid=18d2608ac1284066ba3927312710d16d

You may need to zoom in to see the detail.

I have been looking on the Valuation Rolls for the manse but so far without success. There seem to have been several ministers of Cartsburn in quick succession around that time
Archibald Fullerton to 1898
Robert Walker Muir 1898-1908
Robert Bruce Mackinnon 1909-1912
Kenneth Alexander Macleay 1913-1915
George Campbell 1916-1918
James Francis 1919 onwards
but I have not found any of them listed in the VRs in Greenock.

[DonM]

You won't find a manse in the valuations just as you won't find a church or any other reg. institutions because of their tax exempt status. The post office directory should have the proper physical address.

Don



 

[Forfarian]

You won't find a manse in the valuations just as you won't find a church or any other reg. institutions because of their tax exempt status.

There are manses listed in Renfrewshire in both the 1905 and 1915 VRs.

[Forfarian]

Churches in Renfrewshire in the 1905 VR.

[DonM]

Well I'm eating my words.  My source was the instructor in the tax course at Delloitte's. 

Don

[Forfarian]

Well I'm eating my words.  My source was the instructor in the tax course at Delloitte's. 

He was probably right to say that churches were exempt from paying rates, but that doesn't mean that they were not assessed.

There are to this day many properties owned by sports clubs and charities that are assessed and listed in the VRs, but who enjoy exemption from actually paying rates. I know that because I am treasurer of one such organisation. Every year I get a statement of the rateable value, the poundage, what would be payable and a bill for £0.00 because the organisation is exempt.

And of course things may be different in England, and your instructor may have been talking about the situation in England, blissfully ignorant of any differences.

[Borris]

 Sorry I have not been online for sometime but I would like to  thank Forfarian & Orkrad for your information which has helped me immensely. Enjoyed looking at the old maps of the area and indeed the minister was  Robert Walker Muir minister at Cartsburn. Thanks Borris