Author Topic: Paleography Help! Completed - Thanks  (Read 8251 times)

Offline bristolloggerheads

  • RootsChat Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 894
    • View Profile
Paleography Help! Completed - Thanks
« on: Saturday 28 February 09 14:04 GMT (UK) »
Can anyone help decypher this? I have

(Syn)er of Bentall in the
sayeth as ??????? ??



I included the line above as the "h" may confuse things. The document is a statement in a Star Chamber case dated 1605.

Syner alias Taylor from Broseley and Benthall

Offline JAP

  • RootsChat Leaver
  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *
  • Posts: 5,034
    • View Profile
Re: Paleography Help!
« Reply #1 on: Sunday 01 March 09 08:08 GMT (UK) »
It looks like folsoth

Though there might be another letter ('e'? - or part of one of the letters) between what I've read as 'l' and 's'

I'd like to make it into a contraction of forsooth but can't force the third letter to be 'r' (unless it's an upper case 'R'!  i.e. foRsoth )

The other word is vizt (viz, videlicet)

JAP

Offline bristolloggerheads

  • RootsChat Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 894
    • View Profile
Re: Paleography Help!
« Reply #2 on: Sunday 01 March 09 11:42 GMT (UK) »
Many thanks for this - I couldn't make sense of the sentence but everything is clearer now. I am also struggling on another abbreviated word which reguarly appears in this document along with a number which means something like charge or accusation or allegation but the penny hasn't yet dropped. I have scanned in the first two mentions - the word starting with J.



Can anyone help please?

Peter
Syner alias Taylor from Broseley and Benthall


Offline JAP

  • RootsChat Leaver
  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *
  • Posts: 5,034
    • View Profile
Re: Paleography Help!
« Reply #3 on: Sunday 01 March 09 12:24 GMT (UK) »
Hi Peter,

I'd be interested to know how everything "is clearer now" i.e. what the whole sentence reads.

Perhaps you could post more of the second scan in order to put it into context - along with your transcription to date.

I guess you see what I see i.e. Juterrie but ...

Incidentally, the top line seems to have ffirst (First) before the doubtful word, but the third line seems to have ixth (ninth)??

Back to you,

JAP
PS: I presume it does start with 'J' - do you have other instances of the letter for comparison?

Offline peggypatch

  • RootsChat Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 517
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Paleography Help!
« Reply #4 on: Sunday 01 March 09 13:36 GMT (UK) »
Are you sure it is not a capital 'I'?

Offline JAP

  • RootsChat Leaver
  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *
  • Posts: 5,034
    • View Profile
Re: Paleography Help!
« Reply #5 on: Sunday 01 March 09 13:53 GMT (UK) »
'I' and 'J' were virtually interchangeable at the time.

Which doesn't help with determining the word ...

JAP

Offline bristolloggerheads

  • RootsChat Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 894
    • View Profile
Re: Paleography Help!
« Reply #6 on: Sunday 01 March 09 15:13 GMT (UK) »
Apologies but the document is larger than I can fit on my scanner so have only scanned the left hand side - I'd need to photocopy / reduce it to A4 or do two scans.


Thiomas Taylor was bap. 1582 married Mary Pearce in 1602. The case relates to a dispute over a wooden railway and dates to 1605.
I have:
"Mary Taylor als (alias) Syner the wyfe of Thomas Taylor als Syner of Bentall in the Countie of Salop yeoman aged xxv (25) yeares or thereabouts sworne and ex??? sayeth as foRsoth vizt
To the ffrst ? she sayeth that she knoweth the compl(ainan)t and Richard Wilcocks and Francis Langley def(endants) and hath also seene John Malpas and Charles Morgan in this ? named
To the ixth (9th) ? she sayeth that on Wednesday the said xxiith (22nd) day of May in the third yeare of his Ma(jes)ties rigne she this dep? to Colepitt Hill abouts xith or xiith (11 0r 12) of the clocke in the ? the same day did then and there see the said John Malpas Charles Morgan ? savinge their bills in their ? and did see the s? compl(aine)nt Mr. Clifford, William Wilcocke of Broseley, the wyfe of Richard Yeats of Broseley afores? , Bennett Taylor, Ann the wyfe of John Adams and Rees(?) the constable of Broseley and divers others ?andings about the sd Malpas and Morgan leepinge ? of ? their bills will? them that the ? lay noe hand on them sayinge that they would ? them before any Justice of peace and sayedf that the ? to you? and before ? then they would ? their warrant they had for that if they had done. etc"

The sections then relate to the 27th, 19th, 20th, 22nd J????? (or whatever they are). I presume they relate to the original accusations in the case.

Hope this helps with the context.

Peter
Syner alias Taylor from Broseley and Benthall

Offline JAP

  • RootsChat Leaver
  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *
  • Posts: 5,034
    • View Profile
Re: Paleography Help!
« Reply #7 on: Monday 02 March 09 00:27 GMT (UK) »
Peter,

It's Interrie - a contraction of Interrogatorie (Interrogatory).

An Interrogatory is apparently a Request for Further Information.

A Google gets lots of hits including:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interrogatories

JAP
PS: Peggypatch, you were absolutely right about the 'I'!

Offline JAP

  • RootsChat Leaver
  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *
  • Posts: 5,034
    • View Profile
Re: Paleography Help!
« Reply #8 on: Monday 02 March 09 01:17 GMT (UK) »
Peter,

A few more suggestions for words though the scan is not easy to read.

The first missing word is a contraction of 'examined'.

'Dep{onen}t', and I think it says 'coming' to Colepitt hill.

I think
the said John Malpas '&' Charles Morgan 'standing' 'having' their bills in their 'hands' and did see the 's{ai}d' Compl{ainan}t

of Brosely 'afores{ai}d'

divers others 'standinge' about the 's{ai}d' Malpas & Morgan and the sayd Malpas & Morgan 'keeping'

'will{e}d' them that 'they' 'shou{l}d' lay noe hands

any Justice of peace and sayed that they 'Were' to 'choose' before 'what' Justice

of peace to you and then ? they would 'show' their Warrant they had for ? that wh{i}ch
(can't make out the insertion and not sure about which)

JAP
PS: They must have been exciting times in Broseley in 1605!
See:
http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.aspx?compid=22876
It says that there were "riots in the years 16057, when new cottagers were attacked by long-established substantial tenants resentful of the loss of common rights ..."
PPS: It's interesting that the scribe uses 'j' at the end of numbers e.g. 'xj' (11), 'xij' (12). That's very common in Scots documents but I haven't looked at many English documents.