Author Topic: Paleography Help! Completed - Thanks  (Read 8250 times)

Offline JAP

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Re: Paleography Help!
« Reply #18 on: Wednesday 04 March 09 10:53 GMT (UK) »
Peter, Sorry for hi-jacking your thread!  I'll stop now.  ;)

Roger, On the subject of 'j', in Scotland they have - I was about to say weird but perhaps I'd better rephrase that - a particular early form of date referred to as 'Jaj dates'.
See:
http://www.scottishhandwriting.com/cmPSdat.asp

Regards again,

JAP

Offline bristolloggerheads

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Re: Paleography Help!
« Reply #19 on: Wednesday 04 March 09 12:53 GMT (UK) »
No problem, I'll scan in the rest of the document tonight if I get time. You get to the alleged violence by the end!

Peter
Syner alias Taylor from Broseley and Benthall

Offline bristolloggerheads

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Re: Paleography Help!
« Reply #20 on: Wednesday 04 March 09 19:23 GMT (UK) »
2nd half of the document attached - hope the quality hasn't dropped too much - can always do a more detailed scan of a particular word.



Transcription so far to follow shortly.

Peter
Syner alias Taylor from Broseley and Benthall


Offline bristolloggerheads

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Re: Paleography Help!
« Reply #21 on: Wednesday 04 March 09 20:49 GMT (UK) »
To the xviith Inter(rogato)rie she sayeth that upon the xxiiith day of May in the third year of his Ma(jes)ties raiyne she this day coming to Colepits Hill did there see the said Malpas and Morgan and the said Mr. Clifford the Compl(ainan)t, John Clifford the younger, jefferey Hall, John the husbandman, John Watts the ? keeper and divers other men and women, the constables wyefe and others. And sayeth that before her cominhe hither? she said Mr. Clifford and his said company had taken one of them and then at her cominge the said Mr. Cliffords company were pocing? at the other w(i)the their wepons to take hym who defended hymselfe w(i)th his bill. And further sayeth that the sd Mr. Clifford and his company did compass about the same other ? of the saud two ??? had not taken for to ?  taken him.

To the xixth Inter(rogato)rie she sayeth that at the same tymme she did see stones cast at the other ? two ? that was not taken did see that he was shaken w(i)th one of them upon the brest ? stones were throwen at from by some of them that stood in company with the said Mr. Clifford but by whom she knoweth not.

To the xxth Inter(rogato)rie she sayeth that at the same tyme she did see one of them ? Malpas or Morgan having a hurte or wounde on his head and a cut upon his face.

To the xxth Inter(rogato)rie she sayeth that after the affray ended and before the capture of the said Malpas and Morgan from Colepitt Hill a gent comminge that way ? she hath ? to be called Edward M?  Esquire then one his Ma(jes)ties Justices of Peace w(i)thin the said countie of Salop then the said Malpas and Morgan co?  ? before ? their names and that they were the Dep(uties?) Mr. Lacons ? and sent thither by is appointment and direction and said ? that there said he would heare them out.

Peter
Syner alias Taylor from Broseley and Benthall

Offline Roger in Sussex

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Re: Paleography Help!
« Reply #22 on: Wednesday 04 March 09 22:33 GMT (UK) »
Hello Peter

May I offer a few suggestions?


John Watts the houskeeper (or possibly horskeeper)

Cominge thither (instead of hither)

did compass about the said [other?] of the said two persons with one they had not taken) for to have taken him

stones cast at the [other of the, inserted] two persons that was not taken & did see that he was stricken with one of them upon the brest wch  stones were throwen

one of them either Malpass or Morgan having a hurte

a gent coming cominge that Way whom she hath heard to be called

Malpass and Morgan confessed before hym

Mr Lacons servants and sent thither


Thanks for the opportunity to see this interesting document. I hope my efforts are some help.

Roger




Offline bristolloggerheads

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Re: Paleography Help!
« Reply #23 on: Thursday 05 March 09 18:20 GMT (UK) »
Thanks again to all that have helped. Lastly is the part at the beginning which got chopped off the first scan. There's a couple of words there I'm struggling on.


With your help I now have:
Mary Taylor al[ia]s Syner the wyfe of Thomas Taylor al[ia]s Syner of Bentall in the Countie of Salop yeoman aged xxv [25] yeares or thereabouts sworne and examined sayeth as folow(e)th vizt

To the ff(i)rst Inter(rogato)rie she sayeth that she knoweth the compl(ainan)t and Richard Wilcocks and Francis Langley def(endants) and hath also seene John Malpas and Charles Morgan in this ?  named.

To the ixth [9th] Inter(rogato)rie she sayeth that on Wednesday the said xxiith [22nd] day of May in the third yeare of his Ma(jes)ties rigne [1605] she this dep(onen)t coming to Colepitt Hill abouts xith or xiith [11 or 12] of the clocke in the ? the same day did then and there see the said John Malpas Charles Morgan standing havinge their bills in their hands and did see the s(ai)d compl(aina)nt Mr. Clifford, William Wilcocke of Broseley, the wyfe of Richard Yeats of Broseley afores(ai)d , Bennett Taylor, Ann the wyfe of John Adams and Rees(?) the constable of Broseley and divers others standinge about the sayd Malpas and Morgan keeping  of ? their bills will(e)d them that they shou(l)d lay noe hand on them sayinge that they were to choose what before any Justice of peace and sayed that they were  ? then they would showe their warrant they had for that which they had done.
etc.

Peter
Syner alias Taylor from Broseley and Benthall

Offline JAP

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Re: Paleography Help!
« Reply #24 on: Friday 06 March 09 05:26 GMT (UK) »
Hello Peter,

The first query is one of the problem words we started out with!

*this Interrie named

*clocke in the forenone {I think}

I haven't made out the next query.

For the query in the last line (I guess that's the insertion I commented on earlier) perhaps you could provide a better scan of just that portion.

Incidentally, I didn't go through and check the whole transcription but I did notice that you have 'what before any Justice'.  I think that 'before any' should be deleted.  It's just that the scribe made a mess of writing Justice, crossed it out, and then wrote Justice again.  So the end result for this section becomes:
... they were to choose before what Justice
of the peace to goe and then ? they would show their Warrant ...


Also, might I suggest that, if you provide any further transcription, you break it up into lines matching the document - this makes it easier for newcomers to the document to locate the queried words.

Cheers,

JAP


Offline JAP

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Re: Paleography Help!
« Reply #25 on: Friday 06 March 09 06:42 GMT (UK) »
I've now realized that there seem to be sections missing.

Setting it out line by line would have helped avoid this.

Here's a rough transcription showing the missing sections:
- of Brosely and divers others standinge about the sd Malpas and Morgan and the said Complt bade them
- seize hould on the said Malpas & Morgan,
and the sayd Malpas & Morgan keeping ? ?
- with their Bills willed them that they should lay noe hands on them saying that they would goe with
- them before any Justice of peace and
sayed that they were to choose before what Justice
- of peace to goe and then ? they would show their Warrant ...

Offline bristolloggerheads

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Re: Paleography Help!
« Reply #26 on: Friday 06 March 09 08:10 GMT (UK) »
You're right I should have reduced the whole thing to A4 before I started so it would go on the scanner properly.

Beginners mistake - sorry.

Peter
Syner alias Taylor from Broseley and Benthall