Nercwys(Nerquis) Williams's 1802

[eileendavid]

Hello Alan

I looked these up on Find my Past which is working with Ancestry and both additions are in the local libraries. 

I thought I had found John's parents at the same church but the John baptised 16.02.1768 was the son of William and Ann address given as Nercwys. 

Also on the same page in the parish register  of the one I am sure is ours was a John aged 25 son of Thomas and Elizabeth who married Anne age 24 daughter of Thomas and Martha Amos 20.12.1794.

I struggle with the area but I checked Nannerch to Nercwys and it's about 10 miles but as it was all farmland so over fields I don't suppose it's that far.

I did see another John Williams it said Widower and he married a Mary around the same time but didn't make notes as I didn't think it was relevant.

I think there were quite a few Williams's in Nannerch.  What we need to find now is John Williams  born circa 1769 with parents John and Ann and Elizabeth Roberts born circa 1771 Nannerch daughter of John & Elizabeth.  He might have been born elsewhere as they normally married in the female's parish. 

With regards to Eleanor/Ellen she was baptised at Nercwys 05.10.1794 parents John & Elizabeth.  They won't be on the 1851 census well Ellen won't she married in 1823 at St Mary's on the Hill Handbridge Chester to William Maddocks who was from Gresford.  I have her census for them and have found she had 8 children who are all accounted for.

I'll keep searching and see what we can come up with between us.  I think Despair did us a favour as we can disguard the cleric.

Eileen

[Humphpaul]

Hello Eileen, Well done with all that searching. It gets very complicated with all the Williams's doesn't it.

My Peter 1802 lived in Milford St, Mold till he died. He was at No.82 in 1871 and in 1881 after he died there was a Mary Maddocks age 59, born Mold and it is The Harwarden puplic house.

My g.g.grandad John W 1836 married Anne Parry from Higher Kinnerton so I have done a lot in that area. In the 1841 Higher Kinnerton is a Thomas Maddocks age 40, shoemaker with wife Alice and 4 children. and Robert Maddocks 28 and wife Ann and 3 ch. Then in 1841 Dodleston is a John Maddocks age 13 farm servant.

I expect you have all these but it occurred to me that your Ellen could have been the link that got my John in contact with Ann Parry. You see Robert Maddocks lived at Babylon which is close to Kinnerton Hall and just around the corner from Bramley Lane where my Parrys were. Then again as Thomas M was a shoemaker he would have known lots of people about there. Or am I getting over fanciful? Yes!

Anyway all the best with your searches and please let me know if I can help. I live in Conwy now but am originally from Liverpool. Cheers Alan

[eileendavid]

Hello Alan,

The Maddocks of the research I am doing stems from Jane Maddocks who was born in Stockport 1860 and married a William Ferriday who originated in  Priors Lee Shropshire.

Her father was James Maddocks who married a Hannah Leah at Stockport in 1858 when he was 25.  I have all the census except 1 for James and that is the 1841 census for Hope were James was born.  The records for this area were destroyed after the information was taken off it.  Thanks to Roots Chat I found him on the 1851 census in Higher Kinnerton as a farm servant aged 19.

James was the 4th child of William Maddocks (Gresford 1798) and Ellen/Elleonor Williams 1794 Nercwys who married 1823 ST Mary's on the Hill Handbridge Chester.

The rest of the children were John Maddocks 31.10.1825, William 15.11.1827 at Gresford, Thomas 1830, James 1832, Twins Margaret & Elizabeth 15.02.1835 Hope, Phebe 1839, Ellen/Elleonor 1843 both also born in Hope.

John Maddocks had a child Thomas born in Darland & baptised at Gresford 03.05.1847 with Lucy Parsonage and were living in Liverpool according to the parish register.  I have been unable to find a marriage of the couple. 

William  I haven't proved yet but may have gone in the police.  I have found a census for 1851 stating he was living in Toxteth Park Livepool and was a police officer.  I have been in touch with the police museum who say a William Maddocks born in Wrexham 1826 served 4 years with Wrexham Police and 4 years with Flintshire both these records will be in Clwyd County Records Office.  He also did 18 months with Lancashire presumably with Liverpool before joining Cheshire 04.01.1861 resigning 04.01.1868.  He is not on the Cheshire records of the police as being married so if he did it was after that?  The Census return for 1861 shows he was resident in Prices Lane, Woodchurch, Oxton.  Then I haven't been able to locate any others or find a marriage or a death.

Thomas married at St Mary's on the Hill 31.01.1851 to Jane Huxley aged 21.

James married in Stockport (complete)

The twins Elizabeth & Margaret, Elizabeth married John Powell who was born in Hope but living in Higher Kinnerton at St Mary's on the Hill and died in childbirth.  Her sister Margaret then married John Powell again at St Mary's on the Hill and is on all the census.

Phebe also born in Hope married a William Dodd from Barrow Chester at St Mary's.

Ellen/Elleonor didn't marry but had a son William Henry baptised at St Mary's and died when he was about 2.

Ellen Maddocks nee Williams died June quarter 1859.  William remarried at St Michael's Chester and was living in Pepper Street son of John Labourer.  He died in Chester 1886 age 87.

John Maddocks was born circa 1770 and married at Gresford to a Margaret Jones (1764) 28.12.1792 and died in 1853 and is buried at Gresford.  I have been fortunate as John Maddocks signed his sons marriage certificate, his own and his will and all signatures match.

This is the Maddocks and Williams I have to date.   

Eileen

[eileendavid]

Alan,

Have you looked at the Clwyd name site?  Lots of Parry's etc on there.

http://freespace.virgin.net/jill.farndon25/M.html

Eileen

[Humphpaul]

Dear Eileen, thanks for that. Yes I do use that site. With my Parrys, info has been fairly easy to get as they all stayed in the same area for  over a century and are quite well documented.

Some problems came up because parts of Higher Kinnerton have been in Dodleston, Cheshire and then Hope, Flintshire but I think I am sorted now. There are 3 or 4 other people doing the family because they come from the same lot and those people have lots of info which I didn't.

One thing I noticed in the Nercwys record is a John Williams son of John who died age 2 on 30/04/1802 and buried 2/05/1802 but there is no mother's name so could be no connection.

Bye for now Alan

[eileendavid]

Hello Alan,

I have just read your postings again and the burial of  John Williams son of John who died age 2 on 30/04/1802 and buried 2/05/1802 but there is no mother's name so could be no connection.  This is quite normal as women were not allowed to attend funerals. If the John Williams born in Nercwys in 1799 gives parents as John & Elizabeth Williams you could be on the right track.

There  were two possible John Williams born in Nercwys one in 1795 and one 1799.
Also an Elizabeth in 1795 which would give us a family with Peter in 1802.  I am going on holiday soon and will be away for about 6 weeks so I don't know if I will have time to do it before I go.

Will keep you posted.

Eileen

 

[Humphpaul]

Dear Eileen. Just in case you are not yet on hols.here are some bits I got in Mold library yesterday. I was looking at the parish reg. indexes for Nercwys and Nannerch and got the following:-

Bap.  5/10/1794 Eleanor Williams to John and Elizabeth - does seem to be the eldest.
       22/12/1796 Thomas                           ditto
         8/09/1799 John                                     "                  and his burial 2/05/1802
       24/02/1802 Peter                                                        my g.g.grandad

       16/02/1768 Twin sons John and Edward to William and Anne Williams

Then 23/09/1794 Edward Williams wed Elizabeth Roberts both of Nercwys
and  27/12/1786      "              "          "        Mary Jones             "

Then in Nannerch baps. is 23/06/1771 is Elizabeth Roberts dau. of Robert and Dorothy and no others I could find.

I could not find a marr. for John and Elizabeth in either parish but it could have been in the period when records were lost by Rev. Mason.

In Nercwys are 8 girls born to Edward Williams and Elizabeth between 1795 and 1809 and one was Elizabeth 8/03/1775 who may have been the one who you thought was Johns.

That Elizabeth is in the 1851 census with a nephew named Roberts. Anyway we have a lot more cousins than we thought.

Bye for now, have a good holiday, regards Alan     

[eileendavid]

Hello Alan

Thanks for the info and it does look like we are on the same branch.

The page of the marriage I have is page 97 entry 385 and the year 1794 I was told that FindMyPast sometimes gets mixed up.  It wasn't on the Hope register. so presumably it is Nannerch.  I have given you the page etc so if you go into Mold again you could perhaps check it.

The copy of the Parish Register is for a John son of John & Ann Williams of this Parish aged 25 to Elizabeth aged 23 daughter of John & Elizabeth Roberts on the 01.12.1794 at Nannerch.  John Williams signed Elizabeth Roberts made her x    witnesses were R Downing and Lydia Owens both signed 

Therefore we are now looking for in the Nercwys/Hope/Nannerch area.
1. John Williams born 1769 parents John and Ann Williams.
2. Elizabeth Roberts  born 1771 parents John & Elizabeth Roberts.
3. John Williams marriage to Ann prior to 1769
4. John Roberts marriage to Elizabeth prior to 1771

We are away now but we are online.

Eileen

[Humphpaul]

Hello again Eileen, Following your example I have now found I can get Find my Past at the library.
I have the baptism for John and Edward (twins) to John Williams and Anne at Nercwys 16/02/1768.
I have done a search for J.W. marr. to Anne ?? in the 10 yrs. before 1769 but nor got anything likely.
That P.97 No.385 is Nannerch and everything fits except that John is down as of this parish i.e.Nannerch whereas he was actually Nercwys. But I don't think that matters as it could have been an error.
I will get back to the library as soon as poss. to check the other bits. All the best Alan