Author Topic: Handwriting deciphering  (Read 9697 times)

Online Gadget

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Re: Handwriting deciphering
« Reply #36 on: Saturday 14 March 09 09:13 GMT (UK) »
Hi Grantley

A final word from me  :)

If you could get to Edinburgh at some point, it would be worth looking through the Kirk Session minutes to see if Margaret Kennedie did appear before the session to name the father of Jeane and see what punishment was given to Johne Crawfoord.

Good Luck

Gadget
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Offline grantleydawn

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Re: Handwriting deciphering
« Reply #37 on: Saturday 14 March 09 09:45 GMT (UK) »
I keep looking at the "Laird of Luss" and I am not convinced.

Doesn't the first letter look more like the K in the name KENNEDIE?

Followed by il as in vilifie.

That makes Kil?ss, short for ??

I have no idea what the missing letter would be, if I am on the right track.

Regards
Grantley

Offline JAP

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Re: Handwriting deciphering
« Reply #38 on: Saturday 14 March 09 12:29 GMT (UK) »
Hi again Grantley,

Quick comment.

Be careful about misreading 'e'!

And I cannot see 'vilifie' at all - can't see an 'i' or an 'l'. I transcribed it (reply #15) as 'verifie'.
I have not come across 'vilifie' (or 'vilefie' as transcribed by AA) in such records.
It would be useful, as I said earlier, if AA could tell us if this is a usage with which he/she is familiar, or which he/she has seen previously.

As Gadget says, it would be indeed be very interesting to find out what the Kirk Session had to say on the matter!!

Assuming that Johnne CRAWFURD/CRAWFOORD was pretty well known (which he must have been if he was the same chappie in all the records), one assumes that something must have been recorded about his transgression. Though it was probably poor Margaret KENNEDIE who bore the brunt (the baptism record already shows the - dare I say bigoted - views of the Kirk). Added to which it seems that Johnne CRAWFURD (if it's the same one throughout) had many friends in high places ... What more needs to be said! Gadget, I wonder who might have been the one to bear any punishment. Perhaps poor Margaret, the so-called "well known whoore". :'(
Excuse my cynicism. ::)

JAP


Online Gadget

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Re: Handwriting deciphering
« Reply #39 on: Saturday 14 March 09 13:14 GMT (UK) »
I agree with the you about the attitudes of the Kirk elders, JAP.

Poor Margaret was likely to have been brought before the congregation or, like poor Margaret Roddan in Dumfries in 1689:

Thomas Paterson is said to be guilty of fornication with her; she is appointed to appear at the public place of repentance...and fined 3 Scots

http://www.dgcommunity.net/historicalindexes/dfskirksession.aspx


But  our Laird is still not identified  :-\


Gadget
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Offline JAP

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Re: Handwriting deciphering
« Reply #40 on: Saturday 14 March 09 14:14 GMT (UK) »
Oh Gadget, I should hold back but one does despair.
Thomas PATERSON, in your example, no doubt became - or already was! - an Elder of the Kirk!

I have a rell (not actually an ancestor of theirs) on my children's paternal side who was required to sit on a stool outside the Kirk in the Orkneys in sackcloth and ashes for many many Sundays. Her sin? She'd served beer at a local beerhouse ... Truly. Nothing more. Not even a smidgin of a mention of fornication (which was clearly only a female sin) ...

Just as children often had only fathers - mothers obviously being irrelevant.
From another thread - I looked up records on the NAS and came across a murder case. Obviously, when I looked into it, a disturbed mother had committed infanticide. But the poor wee victim was described only as the child of the father. Hello?!

As for the case found in her ancestry by a member of my local Genie Soc where a child was convicted of incest with her father, and that child was sent to prison for her sin ...

Better get down off my soapbox! It's all far too sad.

Grantley, that appalling descriptor "a notable whoore" has surely struck all too many of us as grotesque.

Regards,

JAP
PS: Yes, still looking for where the Laird might have hailed from. Though perhaps not all that important. James (if the same one in all the records - as seems likely) was obviously pretty senior. Probably wouldn't have been criticized in the Kirk Sessions - but it would be very interesting to find the record!

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Re: Handwriting deciphering
« Reply #41 on: Saturday 14 March 09 21:08 GMT (UK) »
I always feel quite sad when an interesting thread comes to an end. I'd love to find out about what happened to young Jean Crawford and her mother, Margaret Kennedy, and all the other players in the story.


Gadget
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Offline grantleydawn

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Re: Handwriting deciphering
« Reply #42 on: Saturday 14 March 09 21:38 GMT (UK) »
I don't know the fate of Margaret KENNEDIE. I can't find anything on Johnne CRAWFURD/CRAWFOORD other than the baptism records. I just can't exactly tie him to all the other CRAWFOORDs in Edinburgh at that time.

Jeane's marriage entry simply reads;
Edinburgh Parish, 9 July 1658 Johne LAW, Peuderer, Jeane CRAWFOORD

Johne LAW was a burgess and guild-brother of Edinburgh.

I know of one child, Agnes LAW bapt 25 Aug 1661.

The line continues down to my granddaughters. At least we know that my 9g grandmother was the daughter of a 'notable whoore'. The name of my grandfather is 'not recorded'. But that is another story.

Regards
Grantley