jessie mary struthers

[ALEPOHORI]

have just received death certificate for jessie mary sturthers, born c 1862 blantyre scoltand, father unknown struthers, farmer, and mother unknown cross, would it be possible with this information to any census relating to this family.

with much thanks

[AMBLY]

Hi Alepohori

Trying to get to a starting point where we know it's her:

Can you please tell us:
when and where she died?
what was her married name (if she was married?)
What were her children's names (if she had any)?
Do you have her on any Census at all?

Cheers
AMBLY

[ALEPOHORI]

hi, the problem is she was married in australia in 1880 to william douglas shennan ( born in lauriston, scotland to john shennan and mary yann-unable to find any family info) however just realised it does say on death certificate she was in australia colonies for 74 years, so she was 87 when she died, so must have been about 13 when she came out, 1875, sorry, not much to go on, i have also wedding certificate which shows no family information for either party.

thank you

[AMBLY]

Hi

Smelling a nice challenge - I've been beavering away....  
I'll post up what I've found, some of which you've just confirmed

Have found some information on other topics:
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,368097.0.html
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,365452.0.html
william  douglas  shennan, occupation toolmaker,  son of john shennan, occupation farmer, and mary yann, born 1860 lauriston scotland, married in australia in 1880 to jessie struthers and in 1938 (aged 78) to margaret ruby griffiths

Immigration:
http://www.records.nsw.gov.au/state-archives/indexes-online/
Assisted immigrants arriving in Sydney:  1880-96
Jessie STRUTHERS age 19, on Ship "Samuel Plimsoll", 1880
(No other STRUTHERS arriving on same ship, or in the 1880-1896 time frame)
(Age 19, b abt 1860/61)

Found marriage in NSW:
Jessie STRUTHERS and William Douglas SHENNAN - 1880 Balmain NSW
http://www.bdm.nsw.gov.au/familyHistory/search.htm

Plus 3 SHENNAN births in Balmain to parents named William and Jessie
William J - 1881
David D - 1883
Robert - 1886

Another forum says William SHENNAN and Jessie STRUTHERS had:
They had 4 children, 4 boys and then a girl (sic - that adds up to 5?) The girl was my grandmother she was born in 1894 in the State of Victoria, here in Australia.
http://boards.ancestry.com/surnames.shennan/1/mb.ashx
The following looks very likely to me
IGI has the following  submitted (therefore caution) marriage:
William STRUTHERS and Mary CROSS
Married: 14 March 1857 Bothwell Lanarkshire

IGI has the following extracted births of children to parents named as above:
William STRUTHERS - 12 Jul 1855 Bothwell
Alexander STRUTHERS - 3 Jul 1857 Inverkip (Renfrewshire)
Mary STRUTHERS - 1 Jul 1859 Bothwell
Janet STRUTHERS - 21 Sep 1860 Bothwell
Catherine STRUTHERS - 5 Feb 1862 Bothwell
John STRUTHERS - 6 Jan 1864 Bothwell
James STRUTHERS - 16 Deb 1866 Blantyre
Allan STRUTHERS -  19 Mar 1872 Blantyre

CENSUS (the children on Census who match births on IGI have been highlighted)
1851: Uddingston, Bothwell, Lanarkshire
parish: 625,  ED: 4 / Page:  13 / HS 43
Head: William STRUTHERS 26, Master Carpenter Employing 1 Ap., b Blantyre
Wife: Mary 23, b Bothwell
Dau: Ann 1, b Bothwell

1861: Uddingston And Bellshill Rd , Uddingston, Bothwell, lanarkshire
Parish 625/1,  ED: 4/ Page:  11/ HS 58
Head: William STRUTHERS 36, Joiner, b Blantyre abt 1825
Wife: Margt 33, b Uddingston abt 1828
Dau: Ann 11, b Uddingston abt 1850
Son: William 5, b Uddingston abt 1856
Dau: Mary 2, b Uddingston abt 1859
Dau: Janet 6mths, b Uddingston abt 1860

1871: Kilbride Road, Blantyre, Glasgow, Lanarkshire
Parish: 624  ED: 5/ Page:  4/ HS 95
head: William STRUTHERS 46, Master Joiner Employing 3 Men & 2 Boys , b Blantyre abt 1825
Wife: Mary 42, b Uddingston, Lanark abt 1829
Dau: Ann 21, b Uddingston, Lanark abt 1850
Son: R-----??  19, b Uddingston, Lanark abt 1852
Dau: Elizabeth 17, b Uddingston, Lanark  abt 1854
Son: William 15, b Uddingston, Lanark abt 1856
Son: Alexander 13, b Gourock Renfrewshire abt 1858
Dau: Mary 11, Scholar,, b Uddingston,  Lanark abt 1860
Dau: Janet 10, Scholar,, b Uddingston, Lanark abt 1861
Dau: Catherine 9, Scholar, b Uddingston, Lanark abt 1862
Son: John 7, Scholar, b Uddingston, Lanark abt 1864
Son: James 5, Scholar, b Uddingston, Lanark abt 1866

http://genforum.genealogy.com/struthers/messages/14.html
Someone descended from James STRUTHERS, the son of William STRUTHERS and Mary CROSS who was b 1866

Cheers
AMBLY

[AMBLY]

Hi

The ship, Samuel Plimsoll arrived in Sydney in Jul 1880
Here is a transcribe of the passenger list - with Jessie STUTHERS, age 19, Domestic on it, travelling in Steerage
http://mariners.records.nsw.gov.au/1880/07/001sam.htm

Some questions...  

What month  in 1880 did your Jessie marry?

Can you tell me what year she died and who informed of her death?
On how many records do you have her name stated to be "Jessie Mary"?
How old was she stated to be when she married?

Cheers
AMBLY

PS: "Jessie" is a common pet form of Janet - especially in Scotland.

[AMBLY]

Hi

The family I'm looking at in Scotland...who I think are very strong contention to be your Jessie's family.
You'll notice only the children born after the start of Civil Registration is Scotland, appear on the IGI.
The children born before that year, and an extracted parent's marriage - do not.
This is an indication the family may be non-conformist - ie: not of the Established  (Presbyterian) Church of Scotland.

The other important thing is - the son William is born in 1855. In this year, the BDM certificates of Scotland contained a lot of information.
From Scotland's People HELP:
http://www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk/
1855 birth records ...
the child's birth  (date, place and time of birth, full name, sex),
the parents' names (including maiden surname of mother),
father's occupation,
name of informant and relationship to child,
information on siblings,
the ages and birthplaces of both parents, their usual residence and the date and place of their marriage.

Such detail proved difficult to sustain and entries were modified from 1856. Information on siblings was removed, as were ages and birthplaces of parents and date and place of parents' marriage. In birth certificates since 1861 however, the date and place of the parents' marriage was reinstated.

Cheers
AMBLY

[ALEPOHORI]

first of all thank you so much for all information, will sort and follow through, just looked on marriage certificate which shows she was married on 13th october 1880, age not stated, but on death certifcate states age at marriage at 21, date of death 28.11.1949, aged 87, name jessie mary shennan, informant daughter jessie jane armstrong, also jessie died in care, death certificate states she had 'senility' for 20 years. children shown 3 sons and one daughter.

was not aware of daughter until death certificate and your information showing daughter born in victoria adds up as i found family in victoria through electoral role but only showing boys names, jessie and william were divorced, but no year of that, william did remarry when he was 78yrs in nsw.

thank you once again

[AMBLY]

Hi

Great   
Pretty certain the passenger arriving Jul 1880 must be your Jessie.  A lass born Sep 1860, would be 19 in July 1880.  (I wonder if she followed her sweetheart out in order to marry, considering the short space of time from July arrival  to October marriage).

Can find no other STRUTHERS arrived in Sydney between 1860 and 1896. Only Jessie in 1880.

You know she married in Oct 1880.
The death certificate says she was 21 at the time she married, so indicates born abt 1859
Possibly she was in fact only just turned 20 when she married.

The death cert says age 87 in Nov 1949 - so indicates born abt 1861/62
If she is the same Jessie I believe she is, then your Jessie would have in fact  turned 89 in Sep 1949 and was that age when she died 2 approx months later .

The fact that your Jessie  she died in care, was suffering from senility for many years standing; that her death was informed by a daughter who did not know her own maternal Grandparents names, other than a grandmother named CROSS :   is all evidence  towards the daughter also not knowing the exact age of her mother nor the exact details of her immigration or marriage.  Most likely as was often the case, daughter was  providing information to the best of her knowledge and in the process remembered or was told,  some of it wrong.  But usually there are grains of truth:  I believe, the mms of CROSS, place Blantyre and the almost-age at marriage.

Also -  from what you say and what has been found,  the 1949 death certificate is the only place where your Jessie was given a middle name of "Mary".?? This indicating the daughter knew the name "Mary" came into it somehow, but didn't know it was Jessie's mother's name rather than Jessie's middle name? Or perhaps, there was a middle name (eg: a Saints name for a Catholic girl??) which was applied at christening but was not on the official registration of the 1860 birth.

As you say,  the death cert indicates Jessie had been in Australia 74 years (1949 less 74 = approx 1875 arrival) - when in fact it looks very likely she had been in Australia only 69 years.

I'm so convinced - so I'll carry on with the Bothwell/Blantyre family census etc.
If they are the right ones, you have  2 more generations - Jessie's parents and their parents names awaiting you...just typing a bit of it up now

Cheers
AMBLY

[AMBLY]

In 1861, there appears to be 2 children missing from the household of William STRUTHERS and Mary CROSS: 
1) dau Elizabeth who should be age about 7
2) son beginning with R.  who should be abt 9. 
(These two, appear on the 1871 - Elizabeth 17 and R-----? 19)

In 1861, I  believe Elizabeth is visiting her STRUTHERS granny, and "R" is Robert, visiting his CROSS grandparents.  It appears both William and Mary had parents named Robert and Ann - and 3 of those 4 parents died after 1855 so their death cetificates should name both their parents (incl the maiden name of their mothers).

Elizabeth appears to be  here in 1861 - visiting paternal granny:
1861: Larkfield - Blantyre, Lanarkshire
parish 624,  ED: 2 /  Page:  13 /  HS 60
Head: Ann STRUTHERS 71, b Blantyr abt 1790
Dau: Ann STRUTHERS 38, Handloom Cotton Weaver , b Blantyre abt 1823
Son: Robert STRUTHERS 26, b Blantyre abt 1835
Visitor: Elizabeth STRUTHERS 7, b Blantyre abt 1853

R------? is I believe, Robert and he is here in 1861, visiting his maternal granny and grandad (and not too far from his parent's home either):
1861: Uddingston Mill Rd Bellshill - Bothwell, Lanarkshire
Parish 625/1, ED: 4 /  Page:4, HS 22
Head: Robt CROSS 72, Shoemaker, b Old Monkland, Lanarkshire
Wife: Ann 63, b Old Monkland, Lanarkshire
Grandson: Robt STRUTHERS 9, b Uddingston, Lanarkshire

Cheers
AMBLY