Author Topic: *COMPLETED* Thomas ANGEL in Ashton-under-Lyne mid 1800s  (Read 2089 times)

Offline fred2derf

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*COMPLETED* Thomas ANGEL in Ashton-under-Lyne mid 1800s
« on: Wednesday 25 March 09 08:53 GMT (UK) »
Hello,

This is an offshoot of the ANGEL family, Ashburton, Devon (the family origin) topic and the Scotland General topic and the Renfrew ARROL family topic.

Thomas ANGEL and Mary CLARK had 5 children. One of them, Samuel married Janet ARROL and an entry in the Paupers Index in Paisley, Renfrew says re Samuel's older brother "...has a brother Thomas in England and his family chargable  Feb Mar Apr 1853..."

Eldest son:
Thomas ANGEL b. 20 Feb 1820  Low Church Paisley, Renfrew.

He is the only one I can find to be the person in this marriage to Helen CHRISTIE

30 Nov 1844  Thomas ANGEL & Helen CHRISTIE   Paisley Low, Renfrew

The marriage is in the parish records on fiche 573.3/5 and in ScotlandsPeople and in IGI. A copy of the marriage record only confirms the date and place and add this  "Thomas Angel and Helen Christie both in this parish."

This marriage is mentioned because it creates a real puzzle.

Thomas ANGEL married Mary CLEMENT in 1844 in Ashton under Lyne, Lancashire.

Births Sep 1844
Angel Thomas  Ashton  20  20

Births Dec 1846 
Angel John  Ashton &  20  17


Regards,

Fred

Offline madpants

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Re: Thomas ANGEL in Ashton-under-Lyne mid 1800s
« Reply #1 on: Wednesday 25 March 09 10:40 GMT (UK) »
Unfortunately the IGI coverage of Ashton only goes up to 1843  >:(  Have you found both sets of married Thomas on the 1851?  (unfortunately I don't have access at the moment)
GREENWELL - Middlesbrough
TURNBULL - Houghton le Spring, Coxhoe, Spennymoor
DEVEY - Pentonville, Stockton, M'bro
MOHAN/HUN - Stockton on Tees
SCRAFTON - Darlington
BROADBENT - Saddleworth, Ashton Under Lyne
HEMSWELL - Grantham, M'bro
SIMPKINS - M'bro
SIMPKIN - Little Wratting, Suffolk
MALLALIEU - Saddleworth, Ashton U L
GOODWIN - Macclesfield Forest
SUTCLIFFE - Heptonstall, Ashton U L
PLIMMER - Pontesbury, Ashton U L
CAMBRIDGE - Goulborne, Ashton U L
SIDDALL - Ashton U L

Offline fred2derf

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Re: Thomas ANGEL in Ashton-under-Lyne mid 1800s
« Reply #2 on: Wednesday 25 March 09 11:31 GMT (UK) »
Hello madpants,

Thanks for helping. I can't find an actual record of the 1844 marriage but I have some evidence it did take place that year and in the location stated.

The family name also appears as ANGELL and ANGLE. I can't find any Thomas or Mary or Helen in 1851 anywhere in England or Scotland in FreeCEN that looks like a match.

I have been given this:
1851
Unfilmed Census Enumeration Page
District: Ashton-under-Lyne
line no. - street - name
18 XXX  Fleet Street  ANGEL Thomas

No one has yet been able to find a Thomas b. 1820 with spouse Helen anywhere in 1851. Also no one has been able to find a Thomas b. abt 1783 and spouse Mary anywhere in 1851.

I can find no related deaths in Ashton or any other county in England post 1844 yet.

Regards,

Fred


Offline madpants

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Re: Thomas ANGEL in Ashton-under-Lyne mid 1800s
« Reply #3 on: Wednesday 25 March 09 11:59 GMT (UK) »
From Cheshire BMD site Thomas ANGEL married Mary CLEMENTS in 1843, it also states a civil marriage, I have just got a certificate from Ashton where it states civil marriage and that was because it was a marriage that took place in the Methodist New Connexion chapel.
GREENWELL - Middlesbrough
TURNBULL - Houghton le Spring, Coxhoe, Spennymoor
DEVEY - Pentonville, Stockton, M'bro
MOHAN/HUN - Stockton on Tees
SCRAFTON - Darlington
BROADBENT - Saddleworth, Ashton Under Lyne
HEMSWELL - Grantham, M'bro
SIMPKINS - M'bro
SIMPKIN - Little Wratting, Suffolk
MALLALIEU - Saddleworth, Ashton U L
GOODWIN - Macclesfield Forest
SUTCLIFFE - Heptonstall, Ashton U L
PLIMMER - Pontesbury, Ashton U L
CAMBRIDGE - Goulborne, Ashton U L
SIDDALL - Ashton U L


Offline madpants

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Re: Thomas ANGEL in Ashton-under-Lyne mid 1800s
« Reply #4 on: Wednesday 25 March 09 12:09 GMT (UK) »
Thomas must be there somewhere on the 51, if that IS him marrying in Stockport as the date on the pauper paper is 1853!
GREENWELL - Middlesbrough
TURNBULL - Houghton le Spring, Coxhoe, Spennymoor
DEVEY - Pentonville, Stockton, M'bro
MOHAN/HUN - Stockton on Tees
SCRAFTON - Darlington
BROADBENT - Saddleworth, Ashton Under Lyne
HEMSWELL - Grantham, M'bro
SIMPKINS - M'bro
SIMPKIN - Little Wratting, Suffolk
MALLALIEU - Saddleworth, Ashton U L
GOODWIN - Macclesfield Forest
SUTCLIFFE - Heptonstall, Ashton U L
PLIMMER - Pontesbury, Ashton U L
CAMBRIDGE - Goulborne, Ashton U L
SIDDALL - Ashton U L

Offline fred2derf

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Re: Thomas ANGEL in Ashton-under-Lyne mid 1800s
« Reply #5 on: Wednesday 25 March 09 12:32 GMT (UK) »
Hello madpants,


Thank you.

This is a bit curious. I have a copy of a birth certificate from 1855:
1855 January Fourth  4 hrs PM  XX Gordon's Lane, Paisley  Thomas ANGEL  34 labourer born Paisley - married 1844  Ashton under Lyne, Lancashire - 2 boys living - 1 girl deceased  Mary ANGEL  maiden name CLEMENT  her 4th child  34 years  born Paisley.

On FreeBMD this can be found if you choose Cheshire but it says the RD is in Lancs:

Marriages Sep 1843 
ANGEL Thomas   Ashton &c   20   79
CLEMENTS Mary  Ashton &c   20   79

That means a daughter was born in England. I can't find the birth yet but this is a possibility for her death:

Deaths Dec 1849
Angel Jane   Stockport   19   20_

Regards,

Fred

Offline madpants

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Re: Thomas ANGEL in Ashton-under-Lyne mid 1800s
« Reply #6 on: Wednesday 25 March 09 12:46 GMT (UK) »
Ashton is on the edge of Cheshire and Lancashire and also close to Yorkshire.  I have to search all 3 counties for mine as they tend to hop from one to another and the county boundaries tend to hop about  ::)
GREENWELL - Middlesbrough
TURNBULL - Houghton le Spring, Coxhoe, Spennymoor
DEVEY - Pentonville, Stockton, M'bro
MOHAN/HUN - Stockton on Tees
SCRAFTON - Darlington
BROADBENT - Saddleworth, Ashton Under Lyne
HEMSWELL - Grantham, M'bro
SIMPKINS - M'bro
SIMPKIN - Little Wratting, Suffolk
MALLALIEU - Saddleworth, Ashton U L
GOODWIN - Macclesfield Forest
SUTCLIFFE - Heptonstall, Ashton U L
PLIMMER - Pontesbury, Ashton U L
CAMBRIDGE - Goulborne, Ashton U L
SIDDALL - Ashton U L

Offline madpants

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Re: Thomas ANGEL in Ashton-under-Lyne mid 1800s
« Reply #7 on: Wednesday 25 March 09 12:49 GMT (UK) »
According to CheshireBMD the Jane that died in 1849 was 10 which would make her birth year 1839  :-\  No matching Angel deaths between 1840 and 1849 in Cheshire BMD
GREENWELL - Middlesbrough
TURNBULL - Houghton le Spring, Coxhoe, Spennymoor
DEVEY - Pentonville, Stockton, M'bro
MOHAN/HUN - Stockton on Tees
SCRAFTON - Darlington
BROADBENT - Saddleworth, Ashton Under Lyne
HEMSWELL - Grantham, M'bro
SIMPKINS - M'bro
SIMPKIN - Little Wratting, Suffolk
MALLALIEU - Saddleworth, Ashton U L
GOODWIN - Macclesfield Forest
SUTCLIFFE - Heptonstall, Ashton U L
PLIMMER - Pontesbury, Ashton U L
CAMBRIDGE - Goulborne, Ashton U L
SIDDALL - Ashton U L

Offline fred2derf

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Re: Thomas ANGEL in Ashton-under-Lyne mid 1800s
« Reply #8 on: Wednesday 25 March 09 13:06 GMT (UK) »
Hello madpants,

Thank you for looking. The birth of Stephen Gifford ANGEL was on 4 Jan 1855. The IGI entry has his mother as Mary CLEMENT. It says Paisley High but that is an error because the record on ScotlandsPeople says Paisley Low. His birth certificate does not indicate the order of the births of the children. From the date for Thomas Sep Q 1844 I'd say he was the first born so the daughter was born and died probably between that date and some time in 1854.

I have no idea where the 'Gifford' comes from.

Regards,

Fred