More Help Please

[Koromo]

LOL!  I've stared at that mystery word for ages and ages!

Not sure it begins with a b - in every other case the shape at the bottom is well formed.

founds, fornds, fonnds
lounds, lornds, lonnds

Nothing makes any sort of sense.

 
 K.

[Roger in Sussex]

I think I may have been barking up the wrong tree!

There are three coffers with all the linen.
So how come there is more linen later?

Looking again at the problem item, I note that it might be read as "teynen Stuffe".

In an old (1898) dictionary it gives a word "teyne", marked † as obsolete, and meaning
"a thin plate of metal".

It doesn't take much imagination to guess that "teynen Stuffe" might mean things made of thin plate metal, just as wooden means made of wood.. The dictionary quotes "A teyne of silver" from Chaucer as an authority for its definition.

That doesn't solve the question, but it is another line to explore.

Roger

[bristolloggerheads]

"Stuff" in my little experience of the Severn Gorge area normally refers to cloth of some sort normally lightweight or patterned.

Peter

[JAP]

Hello Roger,

I'm not worried about there being coffers of linen (which would presumably mean household linen) and also linen cloth (which would mean
material yet to be made up into clothing or whatever).

I believe that the word starts with 'st'.

The form of the letters is exactly like that of 'st' in 'beste' and in 'trestles'.

So it might become 'stonnd boulte and other leynen Stuffe'.

And might be referring to a bolt of linen cloth and to other pieces of linen cloth.
That is to say, to a bolt of linen material which hasn't yet been made up into anything.
And to some pieces (offcuts) of linen material.

In such a context, 'stonnd' might mean stoned.
Which might mean that the linen had been stone-washed or beaten with stones in order to soften it?

However, having put forward those thoughts, I am worried by the forms of some of the letters.

In 'boult?', is the final letter an 's' or an 'e' or ?.  Mostly the scribe uses a standard final 's' as in 'mares', 'hennes', 'coffers', 'broches' etc.

I am also worried about the form of the first two letters of what might be 'leynen' - the first letter looks like a 't' and the second letter
looks like an 'r'.  Which would make 'trynen' - anything in your dictionary?

What do you think?

JAP

[Roger in Sussex]

Hi JAP,

Yes, st seems right for the first two letters. My mistake there was trying to make it a capital.

I think the scribe sometimes uses the final s and sometimes the loop with a downward stroke, as in "bestes"  and "pigges", which is also standard for"es", "is" or "ys". He is not totally consistent - compare the letters e in "geese" with those in "hennes". Also the letter d in "sowed" is unlike others, as in "beddinge" and "valuated".

boul?. To me the letter before the "es" loop looks like the k in "kyne", but it is not quite the same.

My dictionary has "tryne", marked † as obsolete, meaning "threefold", again quoting Chaucer. It also has "trine" with the same meaning, and also an astronomical term.

You ask what  I think and I would say your stoned bolts is very likely, nothing else seems to make sense, but I'm not entirely convinced.

Roger

 

[JAP]

Hi Roger,

My stoned bolts was a good story (I think!) but, like you, I'm anything but convinced.

A couple of things are unimportant - like what the final letter ('e' or 's') is.

But other letter forms are really important - as I feel sure you'd agree.

Yes, I see what you mean about the fifth letter in 'boul??' looking like the 'k' in 'kyne'.  It certainly does.

And yes, my 1960s SOED gives trine as threefold.

But the letter forms which are really 'bugging' me are those at the start of what has been suggested as 'leynen'.  Have a look at the
first post on this thread.  The word 'Testament' (apart from having an identical 'st' to the start of 'stonnd') starts with a letter
which is identical to the first letter of "leynen".  That is, the first letter of what has been suggested as "leynen" is surely really a 'T'.

Back to you!

JAP

[Roger in Sussex]

Hi JAP,

just to muddy the waters a bit more

The 1898 dictionary gives several meanings for bulk

including
1. A part of a building jutting out [† for obsolete]
2 A large chest or box

1 seems unlikely, but 2 could make sense if "other leynen Stuffe" could be interpreted as "further linen stuff"

I'm clutching at straws there I think, though

Roger

[bristolloggerheads]

Gents,

Really appreciate this. If it would help I can attach a section of the will which might help with some of the letter forms.

Peter

[Roger in Sussex]

Hi Peter,

Yes please, I think we need some help here?

Random thought -

What if trynen = treen?

Roger