any guesses of age of photo much appreciated

[jim1]

I think what you have here is late 1870's by the clothes style particularly
the mans.This braided frock coat and 4- in- hand cravat was popular throughout
the 1870's but the rounded corners of the card stock would date this after 1875.

jim

[mothball]

Thanks for that Shaun, yes, his relative said he moved to Pembroke Dock sometime after his marriage and started photography around 1868.   He was living in Commercial Row on the 1871 census working as a licensed victualler, it wasn't until the 1871 census he had moved to Diamond St (it is actually Dimond Street).  She didn't know when he was employed by the Admiralty.

The man in my photo, if he is Richard Devote was living in Pembroke when the census of 1871.   He moved and married in December 1871 in Bristol    He is on the 1881 census as living in Bristol, so I guess they their child died on a visit to Pembroke.   The child was a girl which I think she looks in the photo.  

Thanks Jim, I was just typing this reply.   Yes, they had this female child 1873-1875, then a boy in 1876 born in Bristol, many more childeren in Bristol until returning to Pembroke  by the 1901 census.  I never noticed before - the card was made in London.

Having these dates is a great help as there were three couples in the running.

His occupation was shoe maker.

[mothball]

Hello Jim, sorry to be awkward, can you let me know if that date of card (post 1875) is flexible?   The reason I ask is the following.

Their first child a female was born in 1873 and died in 1875 in Pembroke.   The next child in 1876 was a male, so was the next child 1879 male, both born in Pembroke.

The child looks to me to be female and quite young.   As do the parents.

Richard Devote was born in 1852 and Angelina Barni in 1853, so in 1873 they would have been 20 and 21 which looks about right.

Interesting what you say about the man’s clothes.

Thanks again

Steven

[jim1]

The child could be a girl or boy they were dressed pretty much alike.
The card stock has rounded corners which was a sea change for card
design from 1875 so not before that date.The only way this could be earlier
is if this is a reprint of an earlier photo.The lady's dress style was popular
throughout the 70's with this flared sleeve to her bodice popular from 1870
but fading from fashion towards the end of the decade.Depending on how
fashionable she was I would suggest 1876-9.On the evidence this is one of
the boys 1876 or 79.
The couple look mid 20's to me.

jim

[mothball]

Thanks very much for the reply.

They moved to Bristol 1879-1881 as the second son John was born in Pembroke then in the 1881 census they are in Bristol.

As Pembroke’s location is so far out, I wouldn’t have thought the latest fashions arrived there quickly.  I remember as a child in deepest Wales we were years behind!

Thanks again, least I know pretty surely it was one of the boys.

Steven

[Redroger]

From a variety of old photos that I have, also from rural parts of the UK, a date in the early 1880s would seem to be about right to me.

[ShaunJ]

Sidney Webb was still at the Diamond Street premises in 1880 (Slater's Directory of N & S Wales 1880) so a date in the late 1870's is possible.

[chinakay]

I've been looking at this photo for about an hour now...it has some mixed messages in it.

I think this is an 1860s photo.

The lady's skirt is pure 1860s, although I think it's being worn without the huge crinoline that went out of fashion in the late 1860s. The sleeving with its loose bell-shaped wrist was definitely the style in the 1860s, although as Jim points out it did remain popular throughout the 1870s.

The dress material is silk, which gave way to much heavier fabrics such as velvet and cottons in the 1870s, and this outfit shows no sign of the fringes and embellishments that are the hallmark of the 1870s.

The man's clothing, although I'm nnot very good at men's clothing, looks like1860s to me, and the square-toed boots are an 1860s thing, disappearing about 1870 or so.

Also the plain, full-length pose is very 1860s, and so is the plain backdrop of the photo.

But as Jim mentioned, the rounded corners of the card backing are problematic, as the rounded corners didn't come out, for the most part anyway, until the mid 1870s.

So...this is likely an 1870s reprint of an 1860s photo. It was common to have reprints made, particularly after someone had died.

The one thing this absolutely is not, is an 1880s photo.

So, mothball...how certain are you that this is a photo of Richard Devote and his wife?

It's a nice one anyway, and if you would like a nice restore you should scan it at 300 dpi, at least, because this is a very low-resolution scan and hard to make out detail in it.

Well...that's my take
Cheers,
China

[mothball]

Hello China

Thanks for you considered reply.  I am new to the photography side of tracing family trees, but as time goes by photographs do come to light.    I have scanned this photo into my computer at 300 dpi, but this site only allows smaller pixel size.   I would be delighted if someone could improve it, although I have photoshop  I am not skilled enough to make much of a difference.   Should I make a separate post?

I know it is a Devote photo as it came from my second uncle who has many Devote photos from the Devote lineage.   I have returned it to him - the photo was glued to the card - flat on, no fancy mounting.

The original Devote - Jacob lived for the main  part in Pembroke having his last child in 1852. 

Out of his three children it is only Richard that can be placed having children in Pembroke. 

Richard’s first child was born in Bristol in 1873 and died after the family  returned to  Pembroke in 1875.    The only Devote children born in the 1860’s were of his sister Mary, but she was living in Bristol and I can’t place her back in Pembroke ever.  She did have a child who lived from 1866-1867 a female who was born and died in Bristol.  She had another daughter in 1868 who lived - again in Bristol.    If it is a 1860’s photo would Mary have been able to send an original down to Pembroke to be copied and mounted onto the card later on?

Both families had more children, last one was in 1895.

What struck me was her smile and his jaunty pose/dress.   You mentioned the boots, he trained as a shoemaker.    I wondered whether this photo shows any sign of wealth?    His sister married into wealth, whereas his dress doesn‘t look so to me.

All four of the two couples were second generation Italians which although makes interest to us it also makes it difficult to guess them apart!

I have another photo of Richard and his sister Mary post 1901.    The couple in the photo has to be Richard and Angelina Devote nee Barni  or William and Mary Barni nee Devote. 

Thanks again

Steven

P.S. I can send my 300 dpi to anyone who wants