Author Topic: Helpful hints to crack brickwalls pre 1837  (Read 25243 times)

Offline dobfarm

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Helpful hints to crack brickwalls pre 1837
« on: Saturday 18 April 09 00:18 BST (UK) »
Dedicated to Phoebe Tidmarsh Dame of the order of the Knights who died 1852  age 72 and Buried at Temple Balsall! in the  Dames of the Knight Templars Headstones Honour of The Lady Katherine Leaverson Foundation to the Knight Templars.


A few Tips to break down the Pre 1837 Brickwalls
Put in simplest terms for all to understand please.

A Run down of sibling in Gro index after September 1837 biths after marriages
around 1830 plus years giving bros and sisters again looking at strange middle names.

http://www.freebmd.org.uk/cgi/search.pl

Oldest ancestor death certiicates nearest to 1837 deaths.

This helps give an approx year of birth also sometimes have a name
that can be linked and an address at death.

A sibling Birth Certificate Nearest 1837 gives the mothers maiden
name and fathers full mame usfull in Bastardy cases.

When trying to find a marriage? When there are a few with the
 Same fathers names and your female ancestor maiden name is unknown?
Try finding the the parish of Marriage (Say 1795 to 1799) in the Hugh Wallis Website

http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~hughwallis/IGIBatchNumbers.htm

http://www.bmdregisters.co.uk/

 IGI and looking at baptisms from the date of marriage to 25 years past
 this marriage date for their siblings. Now look to see if there is a sibling
 of the name you are looking for as below:-

JoSeph Bloggs Bapt 1808 (this is Your known date for your Joseph)

If there is a Joseph Bloggs say bapt 1812  for this Marriage say 1799
then that Marriage can be eliminated also check out infant deaths aswell
as  there maybe two or more before final elimination of.

As well as this! one can also trace this marriage in the census years and
other Sibling names also look around a few streets near for the oldest
names of likley parents.

http://www.freecen.org.uk/cgi/search.pl

Middle Names of sibling being their mothers or a grand parents surname (both parents)
 or Maiden! one and work down from. Also unusual first names like Phoebe-Gertrude and others
that may repeat down the line

Buriels somtimes give an indication to age, year of birth and a lot of
 local studies libraries hold dedicationa- Memorials of gravestones long gone
with names of the family, sometimes parents names also marriage surname/maiden names
of the family location of graves gives family groupings aswell.

WillS if lucky to have are a good source.

As Marriage by Banns only give the parish of residence
 (Not to be taken as birth parish) wittnesses some times helps if the male
is of the same surname as the my hold the same graddpapents.

Marriage By Bonds Licence gives age and a Parent siginture if under age marriage
say 19

Apprenticeship Intentures of the master Graftsmans records also including Home Weavers (not too be mixed up with later industrial mill weavers.)

Bastardy Bonds sometime give good info

Overseer of the poor of that area location records controled these events above and Payments and Birth/Bapts Buriels-Contorl of Movement records of residents?inhabitants = to early form of census details in most Archives offices. They covered the workhouse aswell

Well all invited to add their ideas and links to this post on this subject.

Occupation and abode in Baptisms-Buriel and limited marriage by Banns gives adobe parish of residence in 3 week lead up to the envent. This info inconjuntion with 'overseers of the poor 'records = to census 1837 with movemet recods are in someways better. Linked to Tithe and Allottment records is better with cacompanying maps of tithes. The National archives at kew has all this info links  the county archives office to the main national online archives index or indvidual county web archives index online. The 1801/I811/1821/1831 census have some inhabitants on them while others are head counts.

Court Rolls/ hearthax/ Land tax/Early census, electrol registers /overseers of poor records/Tithe/Allotment/Landowers voting lists/Trade directories/Quarter sessions that covered criminal as well as over legal land doc's licences and such.

Churchwarden accounts and Inhabitants (sometimes)

These are Just a few


Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Any transcription of information does not identify or prove anything.
Intended as a Guide only in ancestry research.-It is up to the reader as to any Judgment of assessments of information given! to check from original sources.

In my opinion the marriage residence is not always the place of birth. Never forget Workhouse and overseers accounts records of birth

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Offline dobfarm

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Helpful hints to crack brickwalls pre 1837
« Reply #1 on: Sunday 19 April 09 02:27 BST (UK) »
Part 2
Engagement to marriage priod lead to Illigit Bastrdy infancy in the 17/early 1800's called  -pre "Walking out together born out of wedlock" and not frownd (Even encouraged) on as then as later Victorian society. This first born and the childs surname and how recorded in baptisms comfuses many tree reseaches coming up out of census years. Hence shouts for help to find parish info on Rootschat,

Newspapers by weekly advertiser are a great source of info in local libraries.

http://www.rootschat.com/links/063p/

(link found  by poster lidster  'Willow 154')


Study Latterday saints libraries in their family search!

http://www.familysearch.org/eng/library/education/frameset_education.asp?PAGE=education_research_series_online.asp%3FActiveTab=2

Findmypast learn libraries!
All about parish register and photos of sample enties etc.
Click around the websites to find info to learn from

http://www.findmypast.com/helpadvice/knowledge-base/parish-records/index.jsp#marriages

National archives Libraries

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/gettingstarted/default.htm?source=research


 UK Family history societies
http://www.findmypast.com/federation-family-history-societies/family-history-societies.jsp



Canterbury/York probate of Wills websites
York Link

http://www.google.co.uk/search?sourceid=navclient&aq=h0&oq=borthwick&ie=UTF-8&rlz=1T4ADBR_enGB291GB291&q=borthwick+institute

Canterbury link

http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~mrawson/cc_intro.html

Private baptisms  the words P by enter in the church later ~Not much
info on this on the websites but a few poster from roots chat have put theirs views on.

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=368972.new;topicseen#new

 http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=365825.new;topicseen#new

Marriage by Allegations,-Bonds-and Licences BY LDS Family search

https://wiki.familysearch.org/en/Marriage_Allegations,_Bonds_and_Licences_in_England_and_Wales

Poor law and overseers

http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/LIN/poorsettlement_cole.html

http://209.85.229.132/search?q=cache:v1b8me6nWNcJ:www.wospweb.com/site/Alvescot-Village/settl.doc+overseers+of+the+poor&cd=22&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=uk

This Manchester Archives website but will be similar to others archives offices around the UK explaining about the local adminstration then in the16/17/1800's

http://www.manchester.gov.uk/site/scripts/documents_info.php?categoryID=448&documentID=3812&pageNumber=2




Only intended for a guidance



Dobby
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Any transcription of information does not identify or prove anything.
Intended as a Guide only in ancestry research.-It is up to the reader as to any Judgment of assessments of information given! to check from original sources.

In my opinion the marriage residence is not always the place of birth. Never forget Workhouse and overseers accounts records of birth

RootsChat is the busiest, largest free family history forum site in the country. It is completely free to use. Register now.
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Offline willow154

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Re: Helpful hints to crack brickwalls pre 1837
« Reply #2 on: Sunday 19 April 09 15:00 BST (UK) »
Hi Dobby,
Goodness you've worked hard on this :D Newcomers, and others, will find it very useful, Dobby.
Here is a link which should help people search to see which newspapers were in circulation at a particular time - just put the name of the town/city in the search box.
http://www.rootschat.com/links/063p/
Hope this helps a little.
Paulene :)
Thanks for all your hard work :)

Offline willow154

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Re: Helpful hints to crack brickwalls pre 1837
« Reply #3 on: Sunday 19 April 09 15:13 BST (UK) »
Just in case this hasn't been mentioned, Dobby.
I used Oath Rolls when trying to locate members of my Richards family in Nottinghamshire.
The following link explains what they were, and what can be found:
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/familyhistory/guide/people/oath.htm

Offline dobfarm

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Re: Helpful hints to crack brickwalls pre 1837
« Reply #4 on: Sunday 19 April 09 16:46 BST (UK) »
Thanks Willow

All helps the the greater needs of all lidsters

Dobby
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Any transcription of information does not identify or prove anything.
Intended as a Guide only in ancestry research.-It is up to the reader as to any Judgment of assessments of information given! to check from original sources.

In my opinion the marriage residence is not always the place of birth. Never forget Workhouse and overseers accounts records of birth

Offline dobfarm

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Re: Helpful hints to crack brickwalls pre 1837
« Reply #5 on: Sunday 19 April 09 17:29 BST (UK) »
Part 3

Learning a bit of history of these areas helps the overhaul understanding of the movement of people! reason to move as industrial revolution from farming home cottage industry to
servants working moving with their employers and going to other area to work in this occupation!. Farming labours slowly moved about to find work in these mining area around the country also factories as they developed in town in northen and midlands area also round London. Then around the 1780 to 1830 the unrest bringing people to rebel as the rolling stone of industry progressed into a unstopable force. This brought the Luddites to the fore front around 1800's that came to a head around 1812 to 1820.

For army researches this was a time of high activity with the French war and nation security against the semi unrest of the these Luddites leading soldier being deployed around these areas of unrest.

Parish -Diocese can be a nightmare to understand but if one thinks about travel and the big rivers like the Seven,Trent ,Humber,Thames, Irewell ,Tyne.  Wear etc  also the main roads like the A1. A5 .A 38. A30 one soon gets an idea. Lichfield covered a funny area from Warwick to Richmond in Yorkshire were the main army barracks at Cartterick in Yorkshire as-well. Also Bishops Transitions held at there achieve in Lichfield and York- Borthwick institute centerer for areas far flung from.

Last Churches

Anglican & Nonconformist

There area most nonconformist churches in the BMDS nonconformist website but not all are there and alot are held at Kew near  London- many are on film/fiche in local studies libraries and archire records offices but if your ancestor is untraceable then sure as heck! they will be at Kew.

Sibling family down run years after a marriage in Anglican and Nonconformist can sometimes Identify a family when their are two or more fathers with the same first name and year of birth/bapt.

There are those who swapped about though. Anyway I would advise a lot of study in this area. there is a lot on the web about this issue.

I'm just like you -no expert!** but at the end of the day who is.

Hope I have been of help and now leave rootschat.
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Any transcription of information does not identify or prove anything.
Intended as a Guide only in ancestry research.-It is up to the reader as to any Judgment of assessments of information given! to check from original sources.

In my opinion the marriage residence is not always the place of birth. Never forget Workhouse and overseers accounts records of birth

Offline willow154

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Re: Helpful hints to crack brickwalls pre 1837
« Reply #6 on: Sunday 19 April 09 19:27 BST (UK) »
Hi Dobby,
Mote interesting stuff - thank you.
Looking at what you said about migration trends - don't forget tthat sometimes if someone worked on an estate they might be moved to another area of the country where the estate owner had another house or land, Dobby.
Hope you will stay with us, Dobby - you've helped a lot of folk on rootschat. Sometimes it can seem as if no-one is taking any notice of what you post, but often many people read the information and benefit from it, but just don't get involved in the posts.
Keep in touch, Dobby.
Paulene :)

Offline dobfarm

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Re: Helpful hints to crack brickwalls pre 1837
« Reply #7 on: Sunday 19 April 09 22:13 BST (UK) »
Hi Pauline,

There are many posters asking the same questions over and over again.

Hence I started this thread! just to put anyone new starting from scratch in the most basic form.

As many know! pre 1837 is like searching in a dark room without ones specs on -unlike the bright sunny days of census info.

Well my ventures are elsewhere in archives of your part of the country on my own ancestry.

All the best of luck to all reseachers in their quests.

Dobby

Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Any transcription of information does not identify or prove anything.
Intended as a Guide only in ancestry research.-It is up to the reader as to any Judgment of assessments of information given! to check from original sources.

In my opinion the marriage residence is not always the place of birth. Never forget Workhouse and overseers accounts records of birth