Author Topic: BURGOYNE Family of Plymouth (Ancestors of Cleopatra Cecilia Burgoyne, b. 1844)  (Read 35182 times)

Offline Rol

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Re: BURGOYNE Family of Plymouth (Ancestors of Cleopatra Cecilia Burgoyne, b. 1844)
« Reply #18 on: Monday 25 October 10 22:26 BST (UK) »


Hi again Moatville -- and greetings Barry;  very good to see both your contributions.

The new Irish information (principally via Gale's 19th Century British Newspapers?) is very interesting;  I have been having a further look at the Gale database myself,  and I think that the links between John Burgoyne (JB) the clerk of works at Dundalk barracks and JB the Holywood-dweller do now look a fair bit stronger than I had originally thought.  I hope to post further about that soon.

Barry,  the question of whether JB had a sibling George Burgoyne seems well worth pursuing,  so I am glad to see your bid for further info via the London/Middlesex board.  For now it does appear to be the least implausible way of explaining the "granddaughter" Hannah,  aged 11 and born Chelsea,  who in 1851 was staying down in Plymouth with JB's parents William and Dorothy Burgoyne.

As you know from our direct exchange of e-mails,  I was a little puzzled to see you write
... Hannah Burgoyne, gd of William & Dorothy, ... may be the daughter of a George Burgoyne (there's one in Chelsea in 1841 but he was bc1796 so probably wouldn't be a son of William & Dorothy).
On my reading of George's Chelsea census entry in 1841 (with da. Hannah aged 2),  he is shown as a carpenter aged 30.  The resulting birth year range 1806 to 1811 would,  of course,  fit fine with William and Dorothy's 1807 Kingsbridge marriage and the birth dates of their other known children.  For the record,  the ref. is HO 107 / 688 / 3 fo.43v p.31.  (Via Anc***ry.com's index the surname currently -- i.e. pending the application of proposed corrections -- appears as Bengonyns  ::) )

Maybe someone on the Devon board will be able to spot a baptism for George in a Plymouth parish,  or even back in the Kingsbridge area (especially if he was the eldest child).


Rol


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Offline bennever

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Re: BURGOYNE Family of Plymouth (Ancestors of Cleopatra Cecilia Burgoyne, b. 1844)
« Reply #19 on: Tuesday 26 October 10 10:15 BST (UK) »
Hi Rol, my apologies for the miscalculation, I can't even work out how I got the 1796 now, worrying! 

George looks a likely candidate but a bit strange that we can't find a baptism when later children have been found.  I think we'll be lucky to find marriage witnesses who confirm his parents/family so a baptism will be by far the best bet.  Fingers crossed.

Barry
Ennever Eniver Hannaway Tadman and all Ennever-related families (or see www.ennever.com)

Offline bennever

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Re: BURGOYNE Family of Plymouth (Ancestors of Cleopatra Cecilia Burgoyne, b. 1844)
« Reply #20 on: Wednesday 03 November 10 16:53 GMT (UK) »
Hello Rol & Moatville, I have just received a copy of a cutting from the Cleveland Plain Dealer announcing the death of Augustus J Enever, who 'married' Cleopatra.  It records several things we know not to be entirely true but is fascinating nonetheless, it reports:

1. Augustus was the son of one of England's wealthiest corn merchants but lost his fortune through his association with a partner
2. He married a direct descendant of Sir John Burgoyne (who was (in)famous for his surrender of New York at Saratoga in 1777)
3. He travelled with Cleopatra and his son James to Scotland to regain health
4. He became 'state accountant' for Equitable Life Assurance Co in Cleveland, Ohio
5. Cleopatra lost her sight in a street car accident
6. One of a number of items left to his son James was a smelling salts bottle held by King George III at the time of his death

I'll keep digging but do we know if the link to Sir John Burgoyne is proved?  I think he's recorded in the ODNB so that's my next task.

Barry
Ennever Eniver Hannaway Tadman and all Ennever-related families (or see www.ennever.com)


Offline Rol

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Re: BURGOYNE Family of Plymouth (Ancestors of Cleopatra Cecilia Burgoyne, b. 1844)
« Reply #21 on: Wednesday 03 November 10 21:19 GMT (UK) »


Barry,  that is a fantastic find!

I have just received a copy of a cutting from the Cleveland Plain Dealer announcing the death of Augustus J Enever [which contains assertions including that ...] 2. He married a direct descendant of Sir John Burgoyne (who was (in)famous for his surrender of New York at Saratoga in 1777)
... do we know if the link to Sir John Burgoyne is proved?

On Claim 2 -- to which you return in your closing para -- I think that we can say "Rubbish!" with reasonable confidence.  (I touched on this in the last part of my Reply 17,  a bit down on p.2 of the old Northumberland thread,  plus in the first couple of paras of Reply 35 on the following page.)  Gentleman Johnny's line is pretty well established,  and there seems to be no room for any overlap.  The sapper-field marshall's own son went into the RN and was the unfortunate captain of the experimental turret-ship HMS Captain (unstable and lost with nearly all hands in a storm).

I rather think that the Saratoga myth may have circulated in the Power family too.  With the surname Burgoyne the temptations are all too obvious . . .

You are best placed to opine on Claim 1 -- and your website seems pretty conclusive about it.

Claim 3 could contain a grain of truth,  to the extent that it does match Cleo's port of embarkation for North America.  It would be good if we could find some Scottish refs. to their presence north of the border.  Augustus does not appear to have sailed on the same vessel as Cleo (and her son by Bennett).

I would guess that Claim 4 about his accountancy job would be verifiable by too many readers of the obit to be a purely imaginary embellishment.

As to Claim 5 (Cleo being blinded in an accident),  it is hard to know,  in the absence of her being named in some press report at the time of the alleged accident.  Maybe I missed it,  but I do not recall seeing anything about her being blind in her US census entries.

The smelling salts story looks too bizarre to be entirely concocted,  but who knows . . . 

Does the article give us any clues as to the cause of death (husband and wife dying so nearly simultaneously)?

As you know,  I entirely concur with the implications of your quote marks around the word married.  No record anywhere that I can see.


Rol


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Offline bennever

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Re: BURGOYNE Family of Plymouth (Ancestors of Cleopatra Cecilia Burgoyne, b. 1844)
« Reply #22 on: Wednesday 03 November 10 23:23 GMT (UK) »
...and I missed this little gem, which I think we know to be fantasy:

Augustus & Cleopatra were married by Lily Langtry's father !!

On the 2 deaths, nothing unusual sadly...Cleopatra was visiting a friend 'when she was taken suddenly ill, dying two days later.'  Augustus 'While attending her funeral took cold which soon developed into pneumonia.'

Barry
Ennever Eniver Hannaway Tadman and all Ennever-related families (or see www.ennever.com)

Offline bennever

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Re: BURGOYNE Family of Plymouth (Ancestors of Cleopatra Cecilia Burgoyne, b. 1844)
« Reply #23 on: Saturday 06 November 10 12:28 GMT (UK) »
Just in case we get lucky I've added a lookup request in the http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=494196.new#new for a lookup of the possible Jersey marriage.

Barry
Ennever Eniver Hannaway Tadman and all Ennever-related families (or see www.ennever.com)

Offline Rol

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Re: BURGOYNE Family of Plymouth (Ancestors of Cleopatra Cecilia Burgoyne, b. 1844)
« Reply #24 on: Saturday 06 November 10 22:01 GMT (UK) »


Well done!  Fingers crossed.


R


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Offline Rol

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Re: BURGOYNE Family of Plymouth (Ancestors of Cleopatra Cecilia Burgoyne, b. 1844)
« Reply #25 on: Tuesday 09 November 10 18:23 GMT (UK) »

Well,  Barry,  your CI look-up request has really paid off -- and thanks to the great help there of Jersey Lily we now have this information (re-posted here for ease of ref.):

Oh ye of little faith!

From the St Helier Town Church marriage records, volume 1875-1878, Page 197

April 23rd 1878
Augustus Jospeh Enever, aged 33, bachelor, occupation Corn Merchant, living in St Helier, born in Stepney, London. Father Augustus William Enever, occupation Accountant
to
Cleopatra Cecilia Burgoyne, aged 33, widow of W Power, no occupation, living in St Helier, born in Plymouth. Father John Burgoyne, Captain R.E.

Witnesses David Gavey and George Boielle

Ceremony performed by William Corbet Le Breton

Hope this furthers your quest

As I have written in the look-up thread,

I suppose we must sympathise with [Cleo's] decision to claim that she was a widow -- a necessary fiction if the couple were to be allowed to marry in church,  even with a fairly easy-going clergyman such as the Very Revd. WCLeB.

On the usually reliable evidence of the Army Lists,  her father was working as a civilian on his RE projects,  so (absent another surprise like this wedding entry you have found),  she  can reasonably be accused of some self-aggrandising vanity in calling him a Captain RE.  Still,  could have been worse -- in Australia her bottle-loving medical brother put it about that their father's rank was Colonel!

So,  an excellent step forward.


Rol


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Offline bennever

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Re: BURGOYNE Family of Plymouth (Ancestors of Cleopatra Cecilia Burgoyne, b. 1844)
« Reply #26 on: Thursday 25 November 10 12:50 GMT (UK) »
Hello rol et al, as I think said in an email this was an excellent example of collaborative research with so much help from so many of the contributors.  I have just added a 'Cleo story' to my family history site which tried to tell the story from Cleopatra's perspective (well, she did marry an Enever but I apologise to those who have a different connection!).  It is at http://www.ennever.com/histories/history15093.php and all thoughts/suggestions etc will be welcome.

Barry
Ennever Eniver Hannaway Tadman and all Ennever-related families (or see www.ennever.com)