Author Topic: Are all the names listed on one-name websites necessarily interconnected?  (Read 5333 times)

Offline Vicwinann

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Re: Are all the names listed on one-name websites necessarily interconnected?
« Reply #9 on: Sunday 10 May 09 19:07 BST (UK) »
Hi
I can't answer the specific Docwra question but thought that people might like to know that  there is an extremely good and very detailed article on one name studies and  the Guild of One Name Studies (GOONS)  in this month's Family History Monthly. 

From some of the replies I have read here it would seem that many people do not understand at all what an ONS is, or its reasons for being.

No, not all people with the same surname are connected, but many groupings are linked with other groupings.
Yours
Vicwinann
Sellwood Berkshire Oxon Lancs Wilts; Cassell Berkshire and Guildford; Leighs Guildford and London; Saunders Portsea, Greenwich and Deptford ; Austin Cookham; Osgood Berkshire; Dack Norfolk; Darling Berkshire and Mapledurham; Wilkins Englefield Berks; Havenhand Derbys; Whileman Derbys; Reedman Derbys, Notts, Australia, Africa; Rottenberry Deptford and Devon;

Offline Keith Sherwood

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Re: Are all the names listed on one-name websites necessarily interconnected?
« Reply #10 on: Wednesday 13 May 09 00:04 BST (UK) »
Hi again,
All very interesting aspects of this theme re One-Name studies and websites.
A bit irritating of me then, perhaps, to pick up on the specifics of the puzzle over this KNOWLES/DOCKERY adoption...
However, I've been looking again at the IGI entries, and Peregrine KNOWLES seems to become Peregrine Knowles DOCKERAY at the baptism of daughter Mary Ann as early as 1803.
So, recapitulating, Peregrine KNOWLES and Mary JACKSON marry on 17th Nov 1800 in Lincoln, and have a daughter Susannah KNOWLES bapt: 04-10-1801.  Thereafter, from 1803 thru to 1812, they have 4 more daughters (one of whom dies within months), all with the DOCKERAY surname after their father, reinvented as Peregrine Knowles DOCKERAY.
The other odd thing is that the mother Mary DOCKERY/AY was 94 when she died in 1859, giving her a birth year of about 1764/5.  If she was indeed the mother of the (second) Sarah DOCKERAY bapt. 1812, she would have been 48 years old then.  Not impossible, I suppose...
Still scratching my head...
keith

Offline Ron Lankshear

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Re: Are all the names listed on one-name websites necessarily interconnected?
« Reply #11 on: Wednesday 13 May 09 01:52 BST (UK) »
So your question wasn't really "Are all the name..........." but was "is Mary Jackson who could be born 1765 the mother of Sarah Dockeray c1812." Is that your real question?

I did suggest looking at the GOONS site as there are several surname connections for DOCWRA DOCKERY etc etc.
One of the GOONS may be a current active researcher

Mary Dockery is 86 in 1851 census (have not found 1841) - so 94 in 1859 sounds correct - Mary Crow is with her in 1851 so I wondered if she was informant at death - did she recall what Mary said in 1851 and was Mary right?

Is she the same Mary Dockery? If she is Peregrine's wife could she be a second wife? Presumably he is 1773 baptism on IGI. Looked for a Mary Jackson born around 1765 in Lincs - oh dear so many.
Ron was born in Shepherds Bush and "knew" London fairly well
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Offline Keith Sherwood

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Re: Are all the names listed on one-name websites necessarily interconnected?
« Reply #12 on: Wednesday 13 May 09 08:22 BST (UK) »
Ron,
Yes, I think I deserve your mild chastisement!  But thanks for having a look around for me.  Mary DOCKERY does indeed appear in the 1841 Census in Ballingdon, Sudbury, Essex - I've started a thread on the Suffolk boards to clarify exactly where that was.  She's had her age rounded down to 70, and is living with her (presumably) daughter Susannah CROW's family.
And yes, there is a plague of Mary Jackson's born at about the right time, just to confuse matters.
I imagine I'm going to have to pay a visit to Lincoln to look in the St Swithin PR's, amongst several others,
Regards, keith


Offline Selina

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Re: Are all the names listed on one-name websites necessarily interconnected?
« Reply #13 on: Wednesday 13 May 09 10:09 BST (UK) »
Hi Keith,

I have a very similar thing with dual use of surnames see
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,169740.0.html.

I was lucky in that THJ read my query and had a Will that appears to contain the answer.

I have still not been able to find a baptism of my Barnabas Stevens/Brighty or the marriage of his mother, Alice surname unknown, who married ? Stevens.

Regards

Selina
Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline Gaie

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Re: Are all the names listed on one-name websites necessarily interconnected?
« Reply #14 on: Wednesday 13 May 09 11:54 BST (UK) »
Hmm, what an extraordinary name Peregrine Knowles was!

Now I know that the familysearch data is incomplete, but entering his name, all years, England, only brings up his birth/christening and marriage records!!  A familysearchwhack of sorts....  ;D

So he probably wasn't hiding when he added Docker(a)y to his name.

I wondered whether any of his siblings had also adopted the Docker(a)y name.  However, the only other Knowles born in St Marks, Lincoln was Jane b 1733  ???  No Dockerys christened in the parish. 

Peregrine's parents were William & Mary.  There were no Williams born 1750-1790 to a W&M couple in Lincolnshire; the only Mary to a W&M couple 1750-1790 was ch 18 Jan 1787 in Fiskerton, Lincolnshire (this Batch C028272 also has to a W&M - Hannah 1788, Elizabeth 1789, George 1794, William 1797; no Docker(a)ys christened in the parish).

I cannot see a will for Peregrine on TNA site.

Docker(a)ys and variants 1740-1820 seem to be associated with Cambridgeshire, Cumberland, Lancs, Herts, Yorks.

Keith, do you know Peregrine's occupation?  Or that of his children?

As there is an east coast bias for the Dockery name, could Peregrine have had an association with continental Decroy/Decrois businesses?  Lace making, cloth manufacture, for example?

Kind regards
Gaie
Sussex, Burwash/Somerset/South London: PANKHURST/FABLING/GREEN/KING/PARROT/POPE/PEMBROKE
Notts/Leics/London: POLLARD/BELAND/FELLS/MORRISON/MARYSON/CLARKE
Northants: MARRIOT/T
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Gloucs: WINDOW Glamorgan: JENKINS Cardiganshire: JONES
Poland: OZIEMKIEWICZ France: LINETTE

Offline Ron Lankshear

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Re: Are all the names listed on one-name websites necessarily interconnected?
« Reply #15 on: Wednesday 13 May 09 14:11 BST (UK) »
Ah now I see her and the CROWs in 1841 which sort of says she is the same Mary and 70 rounded down still coming up 1765 I suppose . And the young Mary 10 months who is with her also in 1851. Only hope to identify which Mary Jackson is a Will for her dad or mum that says my daughter who married Peregrine..... 

And I should have said if Mary married at age 35 it could be a second marriage

And I have been told by experts that fertility past age 40 was rare - back in the old days ie before 1900
Ron was born in Shepherds Bush and "knew" London fairly well
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Offline Redroger

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Re: Are all the names listed on one-name websites necessarily interconnected?
« Reply #16 on: Wednesday 13 May 09 16:27 BST (UK) »
Keith, Around five years ago Doncaster FHS open day was addressed by David Hey the Professor (now emeritus) of History at Sheffield University; during his lecture he mentioned that a family name with a small number of entries on the deaths index between 1838 and 1842 likely originated from a common root. As I was am am researching an uncommon surname LUFFMAN, I asked him what the number of entries was, and got the reply 30. I then checked my data base and established that there were 17 Luffman deaths during the period. I have since assumed that all Luffmans originate from a single root, and find that this has helped my research, though with illegitimacies etc. it is still a minefield combined with a series of Berlin walls!
Ayres Brignell Cornwell Harvey Shipp  Stimpson Stubbings (all Cambs) Baumber Baxter Burton Ethards Proctor Stanton (all Lincs) Luffman (all counties)

Offline Keith Sherwood

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Re: Are all the names listed on one-name websites necessarily interconnected?
« Reply #17 on: Wednesday 13 May 09 23:54 BST (UK) »
Selina, Gaie, Ron and Redroger,
You've all been most diligent in your comments and research, and thanks so much for spending time on this puzzle.  Such a pity that there seem to be no relevant wills that might unlock a clue or two.
I know from my experience of Cambs County Record Office that they have a great many wills pre-1858 that simply do not show up on the TNA site, tucked away on microfilm in obscure places.  Meaning that I probably need to travel to Lincoln and visit their own County Record Office to find useful wills and testaments.
Peregrine is SUCH a strange, uncommon name, you'd think any individuals with that name would stick out like a sore thumb; but they're remarkable for their rarity.  I have found an 1855 proved will for a Benjamin CROW on TNA who could possibly be Peregrine and Mary KNOWLES DOCKERY's son in law (marrying their daughter Susannah).  He could have remarried a Mary in 1854 in the Westminster area after his wife Susannah died, abandonning his young family and going into service there as a butler.
But his will doesn't give any magical clues, I'm afraid.  Thanks so much your input, anyway,
keith