Author Topic: Advice please - can I make a connection?  (Read 1317 times)

Offline SooCatt

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Advice please - can I make a connection?
« on: Tuesday 12 May 09 15:26 BST (UK) »
Hi everyone,
I'd like to pick your brains if I may.

I have a Thomas Marshall born abt 1844 in Ireland.  I have him first on board a vessel from Whitby in the 1861 census as an apprentice seaman.  On this census he gives his birthplace as Coleraine Ireland, on the 1871 he says he was born in Yorkshire but on all subsequent census he states Ireland.
On his marriage cert in 1867 Stranton Hartlepool he gives his father as John Marshall a weaver.

I have found, on the 1851 census, a Thomas born 1843 with parents John (a general porter) and Margaret in Leeds.  The whole family born in Ireland.

A broad census search on the 1861 for Thomas Marshall born Ireland 1844 +/- 2years only comes up with my Thomas on board the vessel Romp of Whitby. 
I'd like to think that the Thomas in Leeds is mine but it seems a bit of a leap at the moment.

Can anyone give me any ideas on how to try and make a connection (or not) between the two.  I have tried looking for John and Margaret on the 1861 but with no luck. 

I'd just appreciate some ideas please.

Thank you
Susan
Crampton, Cook,  Bell, Pinkney, Curry, Duffey, Marshall, Smurthwaite, Urwin - Durham/North Yorks
Harrison - Northumberland
Rowland, Nicholson, Sneaton - Whitby
Athey, Ball, Lamb, Handley, Rymer, Duffey, Pool, Stringer, Wilkinson, Varley - West Yorks
Fisher - Essex

Cencus information is Crown Copyright, from "http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk"

Offline SooCatt

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Re: Advice please - can I make a connection?
« Reply #1 on: Tuesday 12 May 09 15:36 BST (UK) »
Just wanted to quickly post a link to some earlier help I received ruling out a particular Thomas from the Coleraine area.  Don't want anyone spending time on things that have already been done.

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,89084.msg1357632.html#msg1357632

 :)
Susan
Crampton, Cook,  Bell, Pinkney, Curry, Duffey, Marshall, Smurthwaite, Urwin - Durham/North Yorks
Harrison - Northumberland
Rowland, Nicholson, Sneaton - Whitby
Athey, Ball, Lamb, Handley, Rymer, Duffey, Pool, Stringer, Wilkinson, Varley - West Yorks
Fisher - Essex

Cencus information is Crown Copyright, from "http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk"

Offline Sandymc47

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Re: Advice please - can I make a connection?
« Reply #2 on: Tuesday 26 May 09 15:42 BST (UK) »
Hi Sue

Think I might have found Thomas for you on the 1881 census.
I dont know if it is correct as its hard to understand your information as to whether Margaret is his Mother, Wife, or did he have 2 women called Margaret?
If its his wife then I found a Thomas and Margaret Marshall living at
6 Church Street, Whitton, Durham
Thomas is 37   and a labourer  born in Londonderry, Ireland so born 1844
Margaret is 40   born in Whitby, Yorkshire
George Roland - son - is  12 born at West Hartlepool
James                  "             8  "             "          "
Henry                                 6               Bishopton, Durham
Phillis                                 4              Stillington, York
William                               2                "                "

If it is Margaret his Mother, I did find a John and Margaret who married in 1846 in Ireland but that would have been after Thomas was born.  He may have changed his mind about where he was born to fit in as in those days there could be prejudice against the Irish who were classed as naavies in those days.
 Hope this is your family

regards
Sandymc
Midgley, Fowler, Chadwick, Kilvington, Routledge, Hewitt, Stevenson, Ward, Waite, Binks , Buck, Pearson,  Stanley, Firth, Child, Hobson, Rogers, all Leeds and Yorkshire for centuaries except the Routledges from Wigton, Cumbria and Middlesbrough. Related to McAllisters of Wilsontown

Offline SooCatt

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Re: Advice please - can I make a connection?
« Reply #3 on: Tuesday 26 May 09 16:46 BST (UK) »
Hi Sandymc

Thanks for replying.  This is my family but I already have this info- I'm sorry if I confused you.  What I was hoping for was some way of confirming that the Thomas who I have on 1861 (and all subsequent censuses) is the same one that I have found in 1851.

Thomas did marry a Margaret and -if the 1851 census is him- then his mother was also Margaret.  However all I really know about his parents is that his father was called John.

Where did the marriage that you have in 1846 take place? It may be worth my while following it up because it might prove or disprove a link between the Thomas on the censuses.  I'm clutching at straws but hopefully I will get a breakthrough one day.   ;)

Thanks again
Susan
Crampton, Cook,  Bell, Pinkney, Curry, Duffey, Marshall, Smurthwaite, Urwin - Durham/North Yorks
Harrison - Northumberland
Rowland, Nicholson, Sneaton - Whitby
Athey, Ball, Lamb, Handley, Rymer, Duffey, Pool, Stringer, Wilkinson, Varley - West Yorks
Fisher - Essex

Cencus information is Crown Copyright, from "http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk"


Offline Sandymc47

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Re: Advice please - can I make a connection?
« Reply #4 on: Wednesday 27 May 09 20:48 BST (UK) »
Hi Susan

I looked again on the Family search.org for you and the only John Marshall marrying a girl called Margaret around 1844 was Margaret Junkens who married a John Marshall on the 27th March 1846 in Ballymena , Antrim aged 21 and her father was called Joseph Junkens.  John Marshalls father was called Robert.
I cant find them in Leeds as you mentioned in your original notes. Saying that I come from Leeds originally and I know that Leeds is not far from York where the two younger children were born and if you lived in Leeds you would probably go to Whitby for any fishing or boat trips.

If Thomas knew about boats then Hartlepool also would be good for anyone who knew about the sea plus if Margaret lived in Whitby she may have had relatives up North in the Durham or Hartlepool area, just a thought.

Also I have looked for both Thomas and Margarets death but cannot find them at all.  Do you think they may have emigrated at a later date?

Only have a limited access to info so thats all I can think of.  There are a lot of dead ends in the census and you can ony hope you come upon some info that gives you another lead somewhere else.

Take care and hope you can continue

regards
Sandymc
Midgley, Fowler, Chadwick, Kilvington, Routledge, Hewitt, Stevenson, Ward, Waite, Binks , Buck, Pearson,  Stanley, Firth, Child, Hobson, Rogers, all Leeds and Yorkshire for centuaries except the Routledges from Wigton, Cumbria and Middlesbrough. Related to McAllisters of Wilsontown

Offline millymcb

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Re: Advice please - can I make a connection?
« Reply #5 on: Thursday 28 May 09 00:46 BST (UK) »
Hi...

A bit of a long shot but have you tried to see if there are any naval records for him at the National Archives?  I'm not sure how apprenticeships worked, but if he signed-up then maybe there is an attestation sheet which would perhaps have parent and birth-place details.   

I had a little look on the website but couldn't see anything obvious for him but maybe a navy person might know a better way of finding if such a thing exists.

What was his occupation when he married...was he a naval man or weaver like his father? or something else? And does that relate to the 1871 census onwards ok?


Milly
 ;D ;D
McBride (Monaghan, Manchester), Derbyshire (Bollington,Cheshire), Knight (Newcastle,Staffs), Smith (Chorley, Lancs & Ireland), Tipladay (Manchester & Yorkshire) ,Steadman (Madeley,Shropshire), Steele (Manchester,Glasgow), Parkinson (Wigan, Lancashire), Lovatt, Cornes & Turner (Staffs) Stott (Oldham, Lancs). All ended up Ardwick, Manchester
Census info is Crown Copyright http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline millymcb

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Re: Advice please - can I make a connection?
« Reply #6 on: Thursday 28 May 09 01:13 BST (UK) »
Looking at 1871 - I found this one RG10/4974/59/6 which has a family living in Seaham, Durham..

Thomas Marshall aged 27 (SEAMAN) born Durham, Harltepool ?
Margaret Marshall aged 23 (wife) born Durham South Barn?
Margt Marshall aged 4 born Durham, Seaham
Mary Marshall aged 1 born Durham, Seaham

I think you said you had a 1871 with a Thomas saying he was born in Yorkshire.  What occupation was on that? Could this be the sea apprentice chap from 1861? And the one who married in 1867 in Hartlepool - or is it just co-incidence?

Milly



McBride (Monaghan, Manchester), Derbyshire (Bollington,Cheshire), Knight (Newcastle,Staffs), Smith (Chorley, Lancs & Ireland), Tipladay (Manchester & Yorkshire) ,Steadman (Madeley,Shropshire), Steele (Manchester,Glasgow), Parkinson (Wigan, Lancashire), Lovatt, Cornes & Turner (Staffs) Stott (Oldham, Lancs). All ended up Ardwick, Manchester
Census info is Crown Copyright http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline SooCatt

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Re: Advice please - can I make a connection?
« Reply #7 on: Thursday 28 May 09 09:49 BST (UK) »
Hi

I'm sorry I think I have managed to somehow confuse everyone.  ???
The Thomas that I have from 1861 up to his death in 1927 is not in doubt.  (The one in 1871 in Stranton = where he gives his pob as Yorkshire is definately the right one - the children on the one you found in Seaham Milly are not right)
He was an apprentice seaman in 1861 became a qualified seaman and later left to work in the steelworks - eventually ending up in the steel works at Consett.  Despite being a steelworker for much longer than he was a seaman, his burial entry gives his proffession as reitired sailor.  I have no doubts about this being the right Thomas. 
However, because he was already independent of his parents in 1861 the only thing I know of his parents is that his father was John and a weaver (according to Thomas' marriage cert.)

The connection that I would hope to make is between my Thomas and the family in Leeds in 1851 where Thomas aged 8 appears with parents John and Margaret and other siblings (all born in Ireland).  This is the first (possible) info I have for Thomas' mother but I don't know what I can do to be sure that the Thomas in Leeds in 1851
(HO107; Piece: 2320; Folio: 324; Page: 21)
and the Thomas on board The Romp of Whitby, aged 18, in 1861
(RG9; Piece: 4446; Folio: 176;)
are one and the same.

I do hope I haven't confused you further  ::)

Susan
Crampton, Cook,  Bell, Pinkney, Curry, Duffey, Marshall, Smurthwaite, Urwin - Durham/North Yorks
Harrison - Northumberland
Rowland, Nicholson, Sneaton - Whitby
Athey, Ball, Lamb, Handley, Rymer, Duffey, Pool, Stringer, Wilkinson, Varley - West Yorks
Fisher - Essex

Cencus information is Crown Copyright, from "http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk"

Offline millymcb

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Re: Advice please - can I make a connection?
« Reply #8 on: Thursday 28 May 09 13:08 BST (UK) »
Hi - just checking you were sure that your Tomas from 1861 onwards is the same chap... ;D ;D (which you are!)


Milly ;D ;D




McBride (Monaghan, Manchester), Derbyshire (Bollington,Cheshire), Knight (Newcastle,Staffs), Smith (Chorley, Lancs & Ireland), Tipladay (Manchester & Yorkshire) ,Steadman (Madeley,Shropshire), Steele (Manchester,Glasgow), Parkinson (Wigan, Lancashire), Lovatt, Cornes & Turner (Staffs) Stott (Oldham, Lancs). All ended up Ardwick, Manchester
Census info is Crown Copyright http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk