Author Topic: Walter Armstrong c1816 Canonbie  (Read 4656 times)

Offline rvolpato169

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 27
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Walter Armstrong c1816 Canonbie
« on: Friday 15 May 09 03:44 BST (UK) »
I am trying to find the parents and birthrecord of my grgrgrandfather Walter Armstrong (c1816-1897).  According to 1861/71/81/91 Scotland Census he was born in Canonbie c1816 but I have not been able to trace his birth or his parents in either earlier census or Scotlandspeople or IGI.   He was a labourer and lived for many years in Nittyholm and in later years in Hollowgate.

He married Isabella Wishart on 23 June 1853 and had one surviving son and five daughters - Andrew(1861) - my grgrandfather - and Agnes (1857) Margaret (1859 Isabella (1864) Mary Ima (1866-1894) Christine (1875). I also cannot trace Isabella Wishart either.

He is I believe buried in Canonbie along with his daughter Mary Graham.  If anyone can help me trace him I would really appreciate it.

Offline ev

  • Global Moderator
  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • ********
  • Posts: 8,083
  • Drumkilbo
    • View Profile
Re: Walter Armstrong c1816 Canonbie
« Reply #1 on: Tuesday 19 May 09 14:43 BST (UK) »
hi  :)

found on SP -
isabella armstrong(other surname wishart) death 1909 canonbie dumfries
b. c1827

can't see walter  :( how do you know he died in 1897 ?

ev
Census information Crown copyright , All Census information from transcriptions - check original records , Familysearch/IGI is a finding tool only - check original records

Offline rvolpato169

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 27
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Walter Armstrong c1816 Canonbie
« Reply #2 on: Tuesday 19 May 09 21:56 BST (UK) »
Thank you for responding  :) - yes that is the right Isabella Armstrong (Wishart).  The reason why I know when Walter Armstrong died is that my uncle Andew Armstrong (1936) sent me a photograph of a gravestone in Canonbie which includes:-
Walter Armstrong who died at at Hollowshillgate 12 August 1897 aged 81,
his daugher Mary Ima (wife of William Graham b1860, Canonbie) who died 29 Jan 1894 aged 28,
his granddaughter Annie who died 11 May 1895 aged 10 (who was an illegitmate daughter of Margaret below - she had at least two daughters to my knowledge Isabella b. 27 Sept 1892);
his wife Isabella Wishart who died 19 Sept 1909; and
Margaret Armstrong who died in Carlisle at the age of 80 - not sure of the year but probably 1939 - Margaret is the last entry and the gravestone has a lot of litchen on it.

I have a fair amount of information on Walter and Isobella's decendants but nothing on their ancestors hence my query - I thought given that both of them had been born in Canonbie and their daughters and son also had children in Canonbie maybe they had crossed over into some elses ancestors.

Andrew Armstrong my great grandfather b 7 Aug 1861 had two wives one was a Jane Johnstone b 21 May 1861, Canonbie died 31 July 1892 Stannersburn,  Northumberland.  She had 4 children to Andrew:
Elizabeth Jane b1886
Isabella b 1888
Jane b 1889 all three born in Canonbie and both Elizabeth and Isabella seem to have stayed there - and
Thomas John b 1890 in Stannersburn, Northumberland.

Andrew's second wife and my great grandmother was a Jane Irving b 1857 in Kirkpatrick Fleming (father George Irving b 1826 Kirkpatrick Fleming mother Janet Ritchie b 1828.

My grandfather was Andrew Walter William Armstrong b 1900 died 1979 in Newcastle Upon Tyne.  Given his name I have searched for his great grandfather among the William Armstrongs but have not found anyone that looks as if they are an ancestor.


Online MonicaL

  • RootsChat Honorary
  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 32,560
  • Girl with firewood, Morar 1910 - MEM Donaldson
    • View Profile
Re: Walter Armstrong c1816 Canonbie
« Reply #3 on: Tuesday 19 May 09 22:18 BST (UK) »
Not sure if this will help and also you may have already viewed it. There is a son showing to Walter and Isabella, Andrew b. 1855 in Langholm, Dumfries. 1855 was the first year of official registration in Scotland and for one year only it included for birth entries, age and where parents were born, how many children they'd had (alive/deceased and girls/boys).

Not sure this will take you to his parents details but might include something that may help. Asking the obvious here  ::), have you looked at Walter's death cert to see what it says regarding his parents' names?

Monica

Added: (Sorry Ev  :P) Not the obvious question is it. Can't see his death in Dumfrieshire either  :-\
Census information Crown Copyright, www.nationalarchives.gov.uk


Offline rvolpato169

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 27
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Walter Armstrong c1816 Canonbie
« Reply #4 on: Wednesday 20 May 09 02:34 BST (UK) »
Yes I do have Andrew Armstrong's birth certificate but it doesn't really take me any further forward - he was born in Langholm on 24 Feb 1855.  On the birth certificate it states 'one boy living' which I presume refers to him.  Gives the year of the marriage (1853) and the parents names and occupations - labourer - and Isabella's maiden name of Wishart and states it is her first child. 

I can't find a death certificate for Andrew anywhere but have to assume he did die apart from the fact that he doesn't show up on any census after that, my great grandfather was also called Andrew so I have to assume he must have died between 1855 and 1861, although I have searched for his death right up to 1955 and no luck.

Similar story with Walter Armstrong - no death registration - and I have searched IGI and Scotlands People right up to 1900 and also the English records - no sign of him but he may be there just mis-recorded.  When searching ScotlandsPeople for Andrew Armstrong it came up with an Andrew Elliot as being an Andrew Armstrong so I checked for an Andrew Elliot thinking perhaps they had got transposed but no luck.

Well I keep on searching - at least I have the photo of the gravestone!

Online MonicaL

  • RootsChat Honorary
  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 32,560
  • Girl with firewood, Morar 1910 - MEM Donaldson
    • View Profile
Re: Walter Armstrong c1816 Canonbie
« Reply #5 on: Wednesday 20 May 09 10:10 BST (UK) »
What were the names of Isabella Wishart's parents on her death cert? Maybe some clues there to Walter and Isabella's children's names.

Monica
Census information Crown Copyright, www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline rvolpato169

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 27
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Walter Armstrong c1816 Canonbie
« Reply #6 on: Wednesday 20 May 09 20:26 BST (UK) »
I don't know the name of Isabella Wishart's parents - unlike 'ev' I have not been able to find Isabella on Scotlands People - it just keeps coming back as 'no matches'.

What did you do that got a result ev I have tried a number of times and come up with nothing. 

I do know the names of all of Walter and Isobella's children though  - its their parents I can't trace.

Offline rvolpato169

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 27
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Walter Armstrong c1816 Canonbie
« Reply #7 on: Wednesday 20 May 09 20:37 BST (UK) »
Success - found Isabella's death cert - just searched on Armstrong - got a few names but it worked!  Must have been putting in too much information will try than now with others.

Her fathers name is William - didn't record her mother's name - and she was registered by Walter Armstrong (b 1884) her grandson who is the illegitimate son of her daugher Isabella (1864)

Thanks everyone for all your suggestions - they do help!

Offline ev

  • Global Moderator
  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • ********
  • Posts: 8,083
  • Drumkilbo
    • View Profile
Re: Walter Armstrong c1816 Canonbie
« Reply #8 on: Wednesday 20 May 09 20:47 BST (UK) »
hi  :)

glad you found it

ev
Census information Crown copyright , All Census information from transcriptions - check original records , Familysearch/IGI is a finding tool only - check original records