Walter Armstrong c1816 Canonbie

[MonicaL]

Glad you found it too 

The point I made about the names used by Walter and Isabella for their children was to see whether we could make any educated guesses at this stage about potential names for Walter's parents. If Walter and Isabella used Scottish naming pattern for their children then you would expect first born son to have been called after Walter's father (Andrew), first born daughter after Isabella's mother (Agnes), third born daughter (Margaret) after Walter's mother. The fact that fourth born son was called Andrew after the first born son with this name died, normally indicates that this was an important name for either parent.

Scottish naming patterns was not followed exclusively. Sometimes it was the other way round, with the maternal side taking the lead. You have now William as Isabella's father so I think potentially we have Andrew for Walter's father. This is not a 100% science, just a guide at this stage.

This can also help sometimes when you are not able to find a particular birth but other siblings births may show.

Monica   

[rvolpato169]

Hi Monica

Thanks for that information  - I was thinking along similar lines but not quite  -
What you suggest is very plausible - that Andrew was Walter's fathers name I will go looking for those names around that period .

Another suggestion that someone has made is that given Walter and Isabella were married in Langholm one of them must have been born there - probably Isabella - because usually you married in the parish where you were born - does this sound right?

Although I have never been to either Langholm or Canonbie I understand that Canonbie is the larger town and the Nittyholme where Walter and Isabella lived most of his their lives is somewhere in between the two.

Thank you again for you suggestions and to everyone else I finally feel I am making some progress    This is where the other genealogists in the family got stuck too!

[Jeffrey]

Hi,
I don't know if you are still searching for the ancestors or your Walter Armstrong c1816 but I am also looking for ancestors/decedents of a Walter Armstrong c1816 Canonbie.

This is the one that I am looking for.
Walter Graham b. 30 Jun 1815. Bap16 Jan 1816 Father's Name: John Graham or ARMSTRONG Mother's Name:   Margaret Telfer Illegitimate

Walter could have taken his fathers name of ARMSTRONG. I have other illegitimate births in Scotland who have done so.

If that is him then his father's mother  ( his Grandmother)was a Janet Graham. Wonder if those Grahams were related to the William Graham that  Walters  daughter Mary  Ima married. May be a  link there? Worth researching?

I agree with the naming pattern BUT I have found an Andrew Wishart in an Anti Nuptial Fornication Index in 1831 (and Mary Little)
Also  in Jan 1832 William  Wishart in Thorniwhats (and Margaret Smith).

If these are related to Isabel who married Walter Armstrong then these could have figured strongly in Isabella's life and she wanted to call a son after them. Including Andrew.

If anyone  is the descendent of Walter has taken a DNA test then please can you PM me as I have taken a DNA test also. I have found many matches to the Armstrong's who I think are this Walter's family so there may be matches to you too.

Fingers crossed.

Best Wishes
Judy

[Forfarian]

Another suggestion that someone has made is that given Walter and Isabella were married in Langholm one of them must have been born there - probably Isabella - because usually you married in the parish where you were born - does this sound right?

Not a safe assumption.

Normally a young woman would be married in her parents' house, but her parents might no longer be living where they were when she was born.

If her parents were dead, or she was working a long way from home, she might get married in the manse or in her employer's house rather than travel all the way home to a distant parish.

She would certainly not return to her birth parish if she no longer had any connection with it.

[Jeffrey]

I did not realise they got married in the woman's parents house. Was it by the vicar/curate/cleric or was this an irregular marriage? I thought it was in the church. That is interesting and may give another aspect to researching them.

Thank you for the information.

Judy

[MonicaL]

Judy, have a read through this document from Glasgow Uni. Very informative in respect of social history for this period www.gla.ac.uk/departments/scottishwayofbirthanddeath/

Monica

[Jeffrey]

Thanks Monica. That's got lots of good information.

Judy

[Forfarian]

I did not realise they got married in the woman's parents house. Was it by the vicar/curate/cleric or was this an irregular marriage? I thought it was in the church. That is interesting and may give another aspect to researching them.

No.

First of all the Church of Scotland has no bishops, deans, vicars, rectors, curates etc. Those are varieties of clergymen of the Church of England. Clergymen in the Church of Scotland are ministers. There are other clergy titles in other denominations, for example Roman Catholic or Episcopalian, but in those days most people belonged to he Church of Scotland. According to the Old Statistical account of Canonbie, there were in the parish 40 Burghers (a dissenting Presbyterian denomination) but the rest adhered to the Church of Scotland.

Second, it was not customary to get married in the church building. Until the end of the 19th century most weddings took place in the bride's home, or as I have said, in the manse or the bride's employer's home, or possibly in a hostelry, especially towards the late 1800s. The minister went to the venue to conduct the ceremony. This was not an irregular marriage. Weddings in church did not really come in until the 20th century.

[Jeffrey]

Thank you for the explanation. I have been researching years and did not realise or even think about where people got married except in a church. Will look more at this. It's amazing what historical facts I have learnt over the years with Genealogy - I hated history at school but this is fascinating.

I knew the vicar/curate/cleric was wrong for Scotland but just could not think of the name - must be an age thing

I did PM the creator of the original post but  maybe they are not researching any more or has changed their email over the years.

Thank you.
Judy