Author Topic: Westbury families  (Read 12766 times)

Offline Newberrychaser

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 91
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Westbury families
« Reply #18 on: Saturday 13 March 10 00:40 GMT (UK) »
Hi Nick:

Yes, I had been seeing that too, and noted that we need a better explanation.  We're not quite there.  Where are you located?  I know that the wills may be at Someset R.O.  I found some clues that led me there.  I wish the TNA had them, and I could download them now, then this whole mystery may find some closure.  Do you happen to read Latin?

Sue
medieval research

RootsChat is the busiest, largest free family history forum site in the country. It is completely free to use. Register now.
Also register instantly with Facebook or Twitter (and other social networks). Start your genealogy search now.


Offline nwestbury

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 21
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Westbury families
« Reply #19 on: Saturday 13 March 10 00:40 GMT (UK) »
That book by R. C. Hoare:

http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=qbdiPwAACAAJ&dq=%22r.+c.+hoare%22+westbury&cd=1

I can't access page 16 - William's Will.

Can you?

RootsChat is the busiest, largest free family history forum site in the country. It is completely free to use. Register now.
Also register instantly with Facebook or Twitter (and other social networks). Start your genealogy search now.


Offline Newberrychaser

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 91
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Westbury families
« Reply #20 on: Saturday 13 March 10 00:43 GMT (UK) »
I can't access it either.  Sorry.   :-[  Got to go for now.  Will check back later.
medieval research

Offline nwestbury

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 21
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Westbury families
« Reply #21 on: Saturday 13 March 10 01:02 GMT (UK) »
I know it is cheeky.  but I'm wondering whether you can help me out with these two snippits please?


http://books.google.co.uk/books?lr=&cd=3&id=9sULAQAAIAAJ&dq=%22william+de+westbury%22&q=%22william+de+westbury%22#search_anchor

http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=z1dnAAAAMAAJ&q=%22william+westbury%22&dq=%22william+westbury%22&lr=&cd=6

Pieced it together from the Snippets - took 3 hours!

"Page 326

Nicholas Carent clerk, otherwise dean of the cathedral church of
Welles, and John Chafyn, and to give them seisin of a moiety
Of the manor of Orchardley; as it is found by inquisition, taken
On Thursday after St. Matthew, 28 Henry VI, before John Tyler
Then escheator, that William Westbury the elder long before his
Death by charter dated Berkeley, 12 January, 24 Henry VI, gave
that moiety to the said Nicholas and John Chafyn and to
Robert wheler of Boxe, their heirs and assigns, to the intent that
When William Westbury the younger should come of age, they
Should by charter make a grant thereof to him and the heirs of
His body, with reversion to themselves, their heirs and assigns
To perform the last will of William the elder, that the grant was
Made fraud and collusion to defraud the king of the
wardship of that moiety and of the marriage of William the younger
That the said moiety is held in chief by the service of the twentieth
Part of one knight’s fee, and that William Westbury the
Younger is cousin and heir of William the elder, and it is found
By another inquisition taken 8 June last, before Henry Flaxby
Then escheator, that William Westbury was seised of the said
Moiety, and held the same in chief by the service aforesaid,
and by charter (as above) gave the same to the said Nicholas and John and
to Robert Wheler now deceased, their heirs and assigns to the intent etc."

Calendar of the close rolls preserved in the Public Record Office--Henry VI, Vol 6. 1454-1461

http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=F_8WAQAAIAAJ&q=%22and+John+Westbury,+junior,%22&dq=%22and+John+Westbury,+junior,%22&lr=&cd=1 - John Senior (Grandparent of the John you're interested in)

Offline Newberrychaser

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 91
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Westbury families
« Reply #22 on: Saturday 13 March 10 03:27 GMT (UK) »
Hi Nick:

Not cheeky at all.  If we all help one another, we'll get the job done faster and with better results.  I always dislike working with people who don't want to share, or help, but will always be happy to take your work.  That's not me. :D

I was only able to see the first link on your list.  Here is the transcription.

>>Report of the Royal Commission on Historical Manuscripts, Vol. 3  By Great 
    Britain. Royal Commission on Historical Manuscripts  pg. 355.

"Grant by John, son and heir of William de Westbury, to John de Fyfhyde, Chaplain, and Vicar of the Church of Wells, of a vacant place in the street of Southovere, in Wells, 17 Edward III., in Latin.  The seal left.

Gift by Mabel, widow of William de Westbury to her son, William of a messuage and cartilage in Southovere in Wells, situate between the messuage of Gervase le Hunte and the tenement of William Fellard, he rendering years 8 pence to the chief lords of the fee 6 Edward II.; in Latin.  The seal is left.

Gift of John, son of William de Westbury, “boucher” butcher of Wells, to John de Fyffhide, of 8 pence silver of yearly rent arising from a tenement in Wells, situate in Southovere, between the tenement of the Prior of St. John, at Wells and the tenement of Richard Bradwell, with the reversion of the said tenement after the decease of Juliana, his mother, 20 Edward III.; in Latin.  The seal is lost.

Release by John, son of William de Westbury to Sir John de Fyffhide, of his interest in two now selds [or open shops], and 8 pence of yearly rent, from a tenement in Southovere, in Wells, between the tenement (as in the preceeding article), with the reversion of the tenement after the death of Juliana, his mother, 20 Edward III.; in Latin, The seal gone."

If you see any others that I can help with, feel free to send them.  I might be able to get last one from a friend of mine.  I will ask.

Abstracts of feet of fines relating to Wiltshire, 1377-1509
By John Lavan Kirby
Item notes: v. 41 - 1986 - 248 pages
pg 64

Sue 
medieval research

Offline nwestbury

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 21
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Westbury families
« Reply #23 on: Saturday 13 March 10 23:46 GMT (UK) »
Sue,

Found a Nicholas Carent, Clerk.  See the modified reply above yours.

Nick

Offline Newberrychaser

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 91
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Westbury families
« Reply #24 on: Sunday 14 March 10 00:45 GMT (UK) »
Holy Hannah Nick.  ::) How on earth did you piece the above transcription together with snippets?  I didn't think the danged things ever changed. . . You are amazing.  ;) Thanks! I have something for you today, too.  My friend in Wilts has the Feet of Fines page that I couldn't see.  Here is the transcription.

Feet of Fines, pg. 64

11 Henry IV
256/59/27
302.  Oct. of Mic. (Made morrow of Ascension, 10 Henry IV) JOHN WESTBURY, senior, WILLIAM WESTBURY and JOHN WESTBURY junior, pl; John Waspayl, son and heir of William Waspayl, def. Manor of Smallbrook (Smalbroke), Wilts, and manor of Hartley Westpall (Hertele Waspayl), Hants. Right of JOHN WESTBURY, senior, pl.’s by gift of def.; remise and quiteclaim to pl. (Warranty.) Cons. 300 marks.

290/61/146
303. Three weeks from Mic. John Fastolf, esquire, and Millicent his wife, pl.; John Kirtelyng, parson of St. Mary’s Long Strattor (Longstratton), and William Ilketishale, clerk, def. Manor and advowson of Bentley (Benteley). [ I think this is an incomplete entry, so we need pg 65. to see it all. ]

~END TRANSCRIPTION~

SUE's NOTE:  John Fastolf, was involved with the Scrope family who were seated in Castle Combe for centuries. Fastolf improved Castle Combe but apparently was a bit of a dictator after he was able to seize control of the village. I am also studying the Scropes in conjunction with the Newburgh family.  John Scrope married John Newburgh's daughter Isabell. It was an arranged marriage when they were children. John Scrope was first promised to the earl of Warwick's daughter, [Neville the Kingmaker] but it fell through.  John didn't continue his marriage with Isabel, and married someone else.

All these people seem to become a nucleus of intrigue when it comes to politics and power.  Fastolf, tried to deprive John Scrope of his inheritance, which in 1467 was assigned by wardship to John Newburgh.  John Scrope was under age at that time. Millicent I believe was his mother and first the wife of his father Stephen Scrope. His father died in 1467 and his mother in 1472. 

William Carent was the “steward” of Castle Combe. William Carent was the father of John Newburgh's second wife Alice Carent [John Westbury, being her first husband]. There is still much to work out about the families, but as you can see all these people had complicated relationships with one another. It is amazing that it would all come together on this page.  ;D


Sue
medieval research

Offline nwestbury

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 21
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Westbury families
« Reply #25 on: Sunday 14 March 10 11:39 GMT (UK) »
Thank you!  Using the information you've provided above to chase another thread of the story, I've found this snippet, can you access?

http://books.google.com/books?id=SjMtAAAAMAAJ&q=%22steward+of+castle+combe%22&dq=%22steward+of+castle+combe%22&cd=6

Footnote 4:

"4. In 1429 they, with John Kyrtlyng, were the feffees of Sir John Fastolf during his absence abroad; Westbury was steward of Castle Combe  (ibid., p198)."

What does this relate to? And which Westbury? 1429 - Suspect that to be William Westbury. Who were the other feoffees of Sir John Fastolf?

Offline nwestbury

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 21
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Westbury families
« Reply #26 on: Sunday 14 March 10 12:57 GMT (UK) »
http://books.google.com/books?id=he7gAAAAMAAJ&q=%22But,+following+the+practice+of+the+period,+William+Westbury+senior+had+%22&dq=%22But,+following+the+practice+of+the+period,+William+Westbury+senior+had+%22&cd=1

Seems to have more clarity in the following record on the Westbury family.  As ever, I can't access it! Page 184.

"by 1424 Walter and Margaret Syleveyn were holding on half of the manor of Orchardleigh, and William Westbury, a judge, who owned much property in..."

"On the Death of William Westbury in 1449, his moiety passed to his grandson also william, a minor, who was entrusted to the guardianship of Nicholas Carent, dean of Wells, and his brother, William of Toomer. William Westbury died at Toomer in 1454, still under 21, leaving his aunt, Agnes wife of Robert ...[Leversegge]... "

"But, following the practice of the period, William Westbury senior had "