Author Topic: Check the original records  (Read 12214 times)

Online coombs

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Re: Check the original records
« Reply #36 on: Wednesday 10 June 09 14:36 BST (UK) »
Hi Kim

Mary Ann, Sarah Ann ???. Hmmm It would be a good idea to check original parish records.

One possibility is that her parents changed her name from Mary Ann to Sarah Ann or she called herself Sarah Ann instead of Mary Ann.

Ben

Researching:

LONDON, Coombs, Roberts, Auber, Helsdon, Fradine, Morin, Goodacre
DORSET Coombs, Munday
NORFOLK Helsdon, Riches, Harbord, Budery
KENT Roberts, Goodacre
SUSSEX Walder, Boniface, Dinnage, Standen, Lee, Botten, Wickham, Jupp
SUFFOLK Titshall, Frost, Fairweather, Mayhew, Archer, Eade, Scarfe
DURHAM Stewart, Musgrave, Wilson, Forster
SCOTLAND Stewart in Selkirk
USA Musgrave, Saix
ESSEX Cornwell, Stock, Quilter, Lawrence, Whale, Clift
OXON Edgington, Smith, Inkpen, Snell, Batten, Brain

Offline kaydoubleu27

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Re: Check the original records
« Reply #37 on: Wednesday 10 June 09 14:44 BST (UK) »
Hi Ben

Thanks for that - as everyone here has said - check the original records (when will I ever learn?!).

Her name was Sarah Ann on every census, marriage cert and her daughters birth cert.

I'll find out the location of the original records and see if I can check them out, off to Yorkshire later on in the year so I know what I'll be doing for some of my holiday!

Thanks again

Kim
Murphy - Yorkshire (mainly Goole), Guernesy & Ireland
Ward, Broadhead, Laverack, Duckels, Skelton, Williamson, Crowther, Lambert, Clark - Yorkshire
Smart, Dalton - Yorkshire & Lincolnshire
Bradley - Kent
Deamen - Wiltshire
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Offline Redroger

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Re: Check the original records
« Reply #38 on: Wednesday 10 June 09 15:28 BST (UK) »
Hi Ben, I have much the same problem over an illegitimate birth which I believe was that of my 2great grandfather, John Luffman. In Somerset militia records held at Kew he is shown as an 18 year old trumpeter, and his age is consistently shown both in subsequent marriage (Alford Lincs 25.12.1797, and his death in Alford 1821). The only baptism I have been able to locate is a strange one at Henstridge Somerset, where a Betty Meatyard baptised 2 sons, both illegitimate, John, within a week of each other in June/July 1777. The second John has the surname Luffman crossed out, which I was told by records office staff meant that the vicar had a good idea who the father was. Others say that this means the named father contested that the child was his.
No payment was made to Betty for either of these children so far as I can establish. There was only one Luffman family in the village, and they had only one unmarried son, so I have assumed that John is my 2great grandfather, in consequence I was able to take that side of my tree back a further 3 generations. However on the Meatyard side, I was kindly given a tree which took Betty's ancestry back to around 1300AD, so if my assumption is correct I have one unbroken line of 22 generations. As John was still young enough for militia service in 1814 I looked at the militia list for Alford which survives in Lincoln archive, (the original) here I encountered another problem, parts of the list which were originally written in red ink have completely worn away, and there is often nothing at all left. In these cases only a scan, I think in UV light, but stand correction, would bring up these entries, which I think shows that even original documents are not 100% reliable.
Ayres Brignell Cornwell Harvey Shipp  Stimpson Stubbings (all Cambs) Baumber Baxter Burton Ethards Proctor Stanton (all Lincs) Luffman (all counties)

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Re: Check the original records
« Reply #39 on: Wednesday 10 June 09 16:24 BST (UK) »
Hi Roger

Could you tell me the info that you do have on the baptisms? What surname was replaced when Luffman was crossed out of the second baptism? Was a possible fathers name crossed out?

When others say the named father may have contested, does that mean he admitted the child was his or denied it?

I think with my story I have everything sorted out. 99.9% is the nearest you will get on most things in genealogy, even legitimate births. All the evidence that I have gathered, and it is quite a lot, points to Thos Roberts being the father.

Ben
Researching:

LONDON, Coombs, Roberts, Auber, Helsdon, Fradine, Morin, Goodacre
DORSET Coombs, Munday
NORFOLK Helsdon, Riches, Harbord, Budery
KENT Roberts, Goodacre
SUSSEX Walder, Boniface, Dinnage, Standen, Lee, Botten, Wickham, Jupp
SUFFOLK Titshall, Frost, Fairweather, Mayhew, Archer, Eade, Scarfe
DURHAM Stewart, Musgrave, Wilson, Forster
SCOTLAND Stewart in Selkirk
USA Musgrave, Saix
ESSEX Cornwell, Stock, Quilter, Lawrence, Whale, Clift
OXON Edgington, Smith, Inkpen, Snell, Batten, Brain


Offline Redroger

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Re: Check the original records
« Reply #40 on: Wednesday 10 June 09 16:37 BST (UK) »
Ben, I was not quite as clear as I might have been 1) The first baptism showed only John base son of Betty Meatyard baptised. 2) The second baptism showed John Luffman (Surname crossed through) base son of Betty Meatyard baptised.  The surname was not replaced by any other.
The others are recent contributors to Rootschat, I have no knowledge whether or not he admitted the child was his. I do know that in 1805, some 11 years after John had joined the militia, William Luffman who I believe to have been his father joined another militia unit on the same day and at the same place as another of Betty's sons. Pointer or not?
Ayres Brignell Cornwell Harvey Shipp  Stimpson Stubbings (all Cambs) Baumber Baxter Burton Ethards Proctor Stanton (all Lincs) Luffman (all counties)

Online coombs

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Re: Check the original records
« Reply #41 on: Wednesday 10 June 09 16:57 BST (UK) »
Hi Roger

That does seem to be a pointer. I think John was baptised twice, under the mothers name and under Luffman. If the Luffman surname was crossed out, that could mean that the suspected father was a Mr Luffman but he disputed paternity to the vicar and the vicar crossed them Luffman name out. The best thing to do is to check for any William Luffman's in the Henstridge village at the time if a William Luffman joined at the same time as another one of Betty Meatyards sons.

Ben
Researching:

LONDON, Coombs, Roberts, Auber, Helsdon, Fradine, Morin, Goodacre
DORSET Coombs, Munday
NORFOLK Helsdon, Riches, Harbord, Budery
KENT Roberts, Goodacre
SUSSEX Walder, Boniface, Dinnage, Standen, Lee, Botten, Wickham, Jupp
SUFFOLK Titshall, Frost, Fairweather, Mayhew, Archer, Eade, Scarfe
DURHAM Stewart, Musgrave, Wilson, Forster
SCOTLAND Stewart in Selkirk
USA Musgrave, Saix
ESSEX Cornwell, Stock, Quilter, Lawrence, Whale, Clift
OXON Edgington, Smith, Inkpen, Snell, Batten, Brain

Offline clivealbert

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Re: Check the original records
« Reply #42 on: Thursday 11 June 09 10:26 BST (UK) »
Hi, List, a BMD certificate says , A True Copy, I have a death certifcate with a wrong date, now I have left certificates, I have just ordered a duplicate micro fiche from a RO, £11 plus vat and postage, Only hope I can read it. Wish I had thought of asking for certificates for presents. I only subscribe to one FHS now, and that does transcripts of PR which are a lot easier to read but we have once again element of doubt that there are mistakes. But part of the interest is also reading other comments and ideas for research. Best wishes Clive
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Offline kerryb

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Re: Check the original records
« Reply #43 on: Thursday 11 June 09 10:33 BST (UK) »
Hi All

I have been reading this thread with interest.

But Certs are`nt always correct.

We got OHs Grandfathers Birth Cert.To cut a very long story short,Mum had told loads of porkies when she registered him.

She gave him a Fictitous Father & used her OWN Mothers indentity :o

Its a very tangled web!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Omega


Omega I agree that certificates are not always correct.  I recently ordered a death certificate for Hannah Message, my gr x 4 grandmother.  The age fitted with her birth and the place of death fitted.  However the neighbour who had been the informant had put down that she was the widow of Thomas Message - no she wasn't, she was the widow of Richard Message who was transported some 50 years previously.

So did the neighbour make a mistake, (there was a Thomas Message living in the vicinity but he was still alive and married to someone else) or had Hannah told porkies to hide the fact she had had a bad husband. 

There would seem to be lots of factors that can affect the information on the certificate and it most certainly can be a tangled web.....

Kerry
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Online coombs

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Re: Check the original records
« Reply #44 on: Thursday 11 June 09 11:12 BST (UK) »
Hi

I am a very thorough researcher and I myself do like to double check things, or even triple check things. I am a sceptical person but I put that to good use with genealogy. As I say, you cannot always get 100% certainty of everything in genealogy and even thorough researchers have to go on what is most likely. If you want 100% you will always be frustrated, especially with ancestors who have been dead a long time as you may never know the concrete truth of what they got up to.

Ben
Researching:

LONDON, Coombs, Roberts, Auber, Helsdon, Fradine, Morin, Goodacre
DORSET Coombs, Munday
NORFOLK Helsdon, Riches, Harbord, Budery
KENT Roberts, Goodacre
SUSSEX Walder, Boniface, Dinnage, Standen, Lee, Botten, Wickham, Jupp
SUFFOLK Titshall, Frost, Fairweather, Mayhew, Archer, Eade, Scarfe
DURHAM Stewart, Musgrave, Wilson, Forster
SCOTLAND Stewart in Selkirk
USA Musgrave, Saix
ESSEX Cornwell, Stock, Quilter, Lawrence, Whale, Clift
OXON Edgington, Smith, Inkpen, Snell, Batten, Brain