lost,lost,LOST! - completed -

[sandie]

A big thank you to Bryant for all the help and for being so patient with me.

Regards
Sandie



I think there is a greater force at work here than just my incompetence.  Not only can I find no trace of my gr.father pre 1907, but I have also lost the messages I posted asking for help TWICE.  So here's hoping third time lucky.
I am trying to trace my grandfather CHARLES HENRY WELCH born circa 1883/1884 (relatives THINK in or around Camberwell area).  All I know for definite is that he went to S.Wales to work and that my grandmother, Alice Emily Tyler left Camberwell to meet him there and marry.
They were married at St.Mary's Church, Clydadi, Glam. on 1.12.1907.  On the marriage certificate Charles' father is recorded as WILLIAM WELCH, LIGHTERMAN.  I know my uncle was born in Glam. in 1908 and that they returned to Camberwell a bit later.  Charles died on 16.10.1952 in Dulwich aged 69 - that's it.

I've looked in the usual places - 1837online, censuses etc., I looked through the Lightermen register for William, but nothing.
I thought I had hit on something on 1891 census.  I found a Charles Welch, stepson to William Arnold, lighterman, and his siblings had the same christian names as my uncles, but when  I rechecked 1837online for this boy in St.Olaves he's named as Charles William, so I'm back to square one.

If anyone can find ANYTHING, ANYWHERE for Charles, or can suggest where I might look, I would be very, very, grateful.

Thanks,
Sandie.

P.S.  I apologize to anyone who may have already answered these queries on my lost postings.

[Bryant]

Sandie

If you input Charles Henry Welch in the search rootschat box you will find your previous post!

In the mean time I and probably many others will have a look around...we all like a challenge!

Bryant

[Bryant]

In 1901

16 St Helens Road, Rotherhithe, Bermondsey

Charles Welch  boy? 14  errand boy (port)   Rotherhithe, Camberwell
------------------------------
not saying it's him but interesting?

[Bryant]

Sandie

The name of Alice's father please ? and any witnesses from the marriage cert

Regards
Bryant

[Bryant]

Sandie

The only registered births of any Charles Henry Welch's born from the March qtr of 1883 to the December qtr of 1887 are as follows

Charles Henry Welch   Nantwich  1883  Dec qtr, vol 8a  page 300
     "          "          "       Ashton     1884  Jun   "     "   8d    "     499
     "          "          "       Chard       1886  Jun   "     "   5c    "      416
~~~~~~~~-------------
Regards
Bryant

[sandie]

Bryant

Thanks for the help - glad you like a challenge as this has certainly been one for me.

You have already found more than me, I'm going to look into the 14 year old, you never know.

As for the birth registrations, these are the only Charles Henry that I've found, I'm still wondering about that Charles William from St. Olaves but I don't know why anyone would alter their middle name  - this line might just mean more questions than answers though.

As for the details from marriage certificate.  Alice's father is George James Tyler, Labourer and witnesses are John Walker Keen and Dorothy Agnes Gibbs, so no clues there.

Thanks again for all your help.

Sandie

[Bryant]

John Walker Keen (can't be many of them around?)

John Walker Keen, born 1875 Hackney, Middlesex
  "         "         "  married 1894 Shoreditch, Middlesex to Delina Lane

1901 census in Islington
Delina Keen aged 29 head, married (not a widow)
John      "                     son
------------------------------------
if this is the John Walker Keen on the marriage cert? he must have been a very good friend of Charles Henry Welch! to go all the way to Glamorgan from London. John W is not at home in 1901, is he abroad in the Boer War perhaps? is this where he met Charles W ?

I'm also curious about Alice, where was she born? how do you know she left Camberwell? reveal all...Newington doesn't play a part in it does it?

No time to pursue the Boer War bit right now, maybe I will have a look tomorrow

Regards
Bryant

 

[sandie]

Bryant

I never thought of pursuing the witnesses before.  A cousin of mine said her father thought that Charles was once in Royal Engineers but didn't know when or where, so perhaps there is a link there, gives me another avenue to go down.

The reason I say Alice left Camberwell to marry is because on the marriage certificate she put residence at time of marriage as Peckham, Camberwell.  I believe she was born in Camberwell around 1886.

Thanks again for the witness link, at last something new to look for.  I always knew I just needed a new head!

Thanks again for all your help.

Sandie

[Bryant]

Sandie

Your grandmother Alice Emily Tyler...do you know of any brothers or sisters? especially if they have unusual names.
You know that your gr grandfather's name was George James Tyler, you don't happen to know your gr grandmother Tyler's name do you?

On her marriage cert of 1907 did she say how old she was?

I gather you think she was the Alice Emily Tyler born Camberwell in the March qtr of 1886, vol 1d, page 945, is that correct? i'm not so sure... but if we can nail down her family and their movements it will certainly assist the cause!

The Boer War/WW1? also opens more questions than answers, but should keep you busy! Check with the oldest male descendant of your Grandfather...someone should have his medals (and he would have received one/some) and generally not given away, his name should be engraved on the rim of the medals, you need to know what medals they are? this tells a story in itself!

Choices, Choices, Choices

Charles E Welch   Tank Corps                         Reg No 93176    private

     "       "      "      Yorkshire Light Infantry         "        18343         "

     "       "      "      WELSH REGIMENT                  "        1829           " 
   
     "       "      "      East Lancs Regiment             "         38999        "

C E Welch             MILITARY MOUNTED POLICE   "        P/2860    Lance Corporal

Edward Charles Welch  LONDON REGIMENT          "        3440

Charles W Welch   Royal Fusiliers                       "       G/81947
--------------------------------------------------------------
John W Keen  MILITARY FOOT POLICE         P/8963


"     "     "     WELSH REGIMENT                 17273         Lance Corporal

J W Keen       LONDON REGIMENT               590710 
-----------------

John W Keen  duke of cornwalls light infantry    16998
  "     "      "     worcester regiment                      57926
  "     "      "     royal engineers                             289517
J W Keen        Northumberland fusiliers               46793
"  "   "             Kings royal rifle corps                    3439
"  "   "             Royal Garrison Artillery                  T/291447
---------------------------
Regards
Bryant