Help needed please Patrick KINSELA convict

[Anderson]

Would appreciate a good detective.
What we have is 3 Patrick Kinsela's (variant spelling) being transported to NSW penal colony as listed below:
surname    1st name    Yr arrived NSW         Ship            Sentenced from       year        sentence    age
KINSELA      Patrick              1820               Dorothy             Dublin City          1819          7yrs          28
KINSELA      Patrick              1835               Forth (3)             Wexford            1833          7yrs          22
KINSELAGH  Patrick              1821              John Barry(2)     Dublin City                            7yrs          18

My wife's 3 x g/grandfather was Patrick Kinsela who came to NSW (when ?) and married in NSW Feb 1838. In 1838 he was chief police constable in Queanbeyan NSW and did by accident in Feb.1841. Because registration didn't come in until the 1850's we haven't a cert. which may have showed his age.
My question:
Is there any Irish court records I can view online (like the Old Bailey England) that may show any information on the three convicted Patrick's to see if maybe one was a policeman in Ireland and give us a clue to which one is our family.
Appreciate any help
Anderson

[PrueM]

Hi Anderson 

There is a fantastic Irish transportation database, but unfortunately all records prior to 1836 were destroyed in a fire 

http://www.nationalarchives.ie/topics/transportation/search01.html

Have you got Patrick's marriage registration?  My convicts' marriage records show which ship they came on...just a thought.

Cheers
Prue

[PrueM]

P.S.  A search of the Index to Certificates of Freedom on the NSW State Records site shows that the Patrick KINSELA who arrived on the Forth received his CofF in 1850 - so you can rule him out as your man.  You should be able to view the films of these Certificates at one of the large libraries...I know the National Library in Canberra has a copy of the film.  The CofF should give information such as where Patrick was from, what his trade or profession was, where he was tried etc. so if you checked the two possible Patricks, you might be able to work out which one is yours (if either).

http://www.records.nsw.gov.au/state-archives/indexes-online/indexes-online#convicts

[Anderson]

Thanks Prue
I love your presidential Australia bit.
I had a look at the CofF site and it showed a few strange bits I couldn't understand mainly.
The 3 Patrick's as you mentioned. The one on the Forth, yes we can cross out.
The one on the Dorothy CF# 004/5906 - date 4 jan 1827 - item 4/4424 - reel 602 - remarks nil.
The one on the John Barry had 3 lots of CF#'s 27/1111 dated 23 dec 1827 - item4/4291 - reel 982 & remarks - renewed CF1 Oct 1831 (31/1064)     
             ***   ALSO  *** (same Patrick)
CF#31/1064 - dated 21 Oct 1831 - item 4/4308 - reel 988 - remarks -inleau of CF27/1111 renewed CF 37/16     
             ****ALSO****  (same Patrick)
CF#37/0016 - dated 14 Jan 1837 - item 4/4336 - reel 998 - remarks, in leau of CF 31/1064

Does that make sense to you. is it the same Patrick being a naughty boy and having his sentence extended or am I reading it wrong. Not sure about all the CF#'s.
Thanks Prue
Anderson

[PrueM]

Hi Anderson,

One of my convicts had two tickets of leave, one was accidentally spoiled/destroyed (probably left it in his pocket when his shirt got washed or something!) and he was issued with another one to replace it.  Possibly this is the case with the three CofFs for Patrick - or, as you say, he might have had one cancelled for being naughty!

Cheers
Prue

[Anderson]

Hi Prue
Finding it hard to understand why no one has responded to my post on any available Irish court proceedings for the convicted convicts online like you can with the Old Bayley trials.
I see you are searching HAYNES family. Do they have a connection with the ALCHIN's in NSW?
Anderson

[shanew147]

Many Irish records from the time you are interested were held in the Public Records Office which was badly damaged during the Civil War in 1922

There may be a some surviving records in the National Archives (http://www.nationalarchives.ie/) but as far as I know nothing online  relating to court cases.

Another possible source for information on a trial may be old newspapers. The Freeman's Journal of Dublin was being published at this time and is sometimes available online in libraries..



Shane

[Anderson]

Thanks Shane. Learning all the time so I will try and find the newspapers online.
Anderson

[PrueM]

Hi Anderson,

I don't know of any connection with my HAYNES family and the ALCHINs...my Haynes family came out in 1841/42 from Cork, and were in and around Armidale originally.  My branch then settled in Sydney in the late 1800s.

I should have mentioned that the Cert of Freedom #s that you were confused by relate to the year and number of the certificate, so "27/1111" means Cert #1111 issued in 1827. 

Prue