Author Topic: carolan and jones - Mayo: lynch, kelly and magee - Dublin  (Read 6284 times)

Offline dermot lynch

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carolan and jones - Mayo: lynch, kelly and magee - Dublin
« on: Thursday 18 June 09 12:09 BST (UK) »
G'day...I am trying to assist my daughter who wants to map our family tree and I am finding it very difficult to give her any worthwhile information. Would appreciate any assistance. My mother (Eileen Philomena CAROLAN) was born in Westport, Mayo on 6th June, either 1926 or 1929. She had a brother known as PJ who was murdered, probably in London (I suspect between 1935 and 1960). Her father was Thomas CAROLAN (he served in the British Armed forces in WW1) and he married Helena JONES (I suspect originally from Sligo). I do not know where they were married. My mother spent some of her early teen years in a boarding school in England. I suspect that Thomas CAROLAN would have been born between 1885 and 1908 and Helena Jones between 1887 and 1910. I have found listing in English war records and 1901 census but have no way of tying them conclusively with my family. Seems that there is a real gap for online information in the 1920's onwards and I think I need to find records around that timeframe to link my family to any of the records I have found (war and census). I was hoping for either a record that showed Thomas CAROLAN and Helena JONES marrying, which would have been between 1918 and 1929 or a newspaper clipping giving any details of PJ CAROLAN'S murder or a later family record of the CAROLAN'S showing my mother Eileen as one of the children or any other record I haven't thought about. My mother eventually married BRENDAN JOSEPH LYNCH (from Dublin) in Coventry in England around 1950 (I can't find record of that either) and in 1951 my sister Brenda was born in Dublin, followed in 1953 by myself in Sligo. In 1959 my family immigrated to Australia on the fairsky from Southampton and I have found the ship's passenger list that shows my mum's birth as 1929 but I am not sure if that is accurate as I found a copy of a birth certificate obtained in 1947 which has the year smudged and it could either be 1926 or 1929. My father Brendan was born in 1925 (he had an older brother , Dermot who was born in 1920 and died in 1928). He was in the Irish Army at the beginning of World War 2 and then joined the British Air force. His mother was Ellen ( I don't know her maiden name) and his father was Christopher LYNCH, who was in World War one and who died in 1927 (He had a sister known as Bonnie). I found the record of the grave that he and my uncle Dermot were buried in, in Glasnevin, Dublin. Christopher married Sarah Kelly, who was the daughter of a Harbour Master. When Christopher (known as Christie) died, Sarah married William Magee (around 1930). William had 3 children, Hugh, Billy and Mary. Mary married Danny KINEHAN and they had 2 children, Christopher and Sally-Anne. I suspect that Sally-Anne may be a current member of parliament or have a reasonably high profile position in a government department. Beyond that I know very little. If anyone can shed any light on this it would be appreciated. Thank you for taking the time to read this. Cheers Dermot

Offline diddymiller

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Re: carolan and jones - Mayo: lynch, kelly and magee - Dublin
« Reply #1 on: Thursday 18 June 09 15:37 BST (UK) »
Hi and welcome to RC. first - is the tree on A* yours / your daughters? it helps to see it in tree form (i'd already scribbled  it out on paper.)

probably best to stick to one side of family first or it can get confusing! Irish records are tricky anyway.

The A* tree has a marriage Thomas = helena in ireland 1925 but no proof.

will have a rummage around.
Diddy
Cooks -(Clackmannanshire); Erskines - (fife); Youngs - (Dunfermline); Charltons - (Tyneside ); Skillings - (N.Norfolk); Legg - (N.Yorks, Tyneside) ; Carter - (Durham); Miller -(suffolk); Pattinson -(Lincs)

Offline dermot lynch

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Re: carolan and jones - Mayo: lynch, kelly and magee - Dublin
« Reply #2 on: Thursday 18 June 09 21:39 BST (UK) »
G'day to you Diddy...Thanks for the quick response.  Yes, Irish records certainly are tricky, confusing, mystifying and intriguing.  Not quite sure what you mean by " is the tree on A* yours/your daughters?".  Understand what you are saying about sticking to one side at a time.  I agree that finding some proof of the marriage between Thomas CAROLAN and Helena JONES is a good place to start.  I am going to assume that A* represents one side of the tree and therefore there is a B* for the other side (my father's).  This A* side centres around Mayo, where I suspect Thomas CAROLAN was born and where my mother was and SLIGO where I suspect her mother (Helena JONES) was born.  I suspect that Thomas died before I was born in 1953, as I was born in SLIGO whilst my mother was living with her mother Helena, in SLIGO.  At the time, I think my father was in England working.  It's quite possible that Helena married again, as she would have probably only been in her forties when Thomas died, provided of course, that I am not killing him off to early.  I remember mum saying that her mother (Helena) lived a long life, well into her 90's and I recall that when we used to go to Grandma Carolan's as young kids (my sister Brenda and myself), there was no Grandpa Carolan.  Thanks again for your interest and your time....Cheers Dermot


Offline carol8353

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Re: carolan and jones - Mayo: lynch, kelly and magee - Dublin
« Reply #3 on: Thursday 18 June 09 22:45 BST (UK) »
Hello Dermot and welcome to Rootschat  ;D

Firstly can I say it's not a good idea to publish your email address,contact can be made on the message boards or by PM( Personal Messaging system)

Your mothers birth Eileen P Carolan was in 1929,it is on the Family Search record search pilot.

It gives her mothers surname as Jones and was as you say in Westport.
Registered in the Jul- Sept 1/4 Film number 101231 volume 4 page 334 image number 00114.

Not sure if that helps you at all !

Regards

Carol

PS for Irish records(some!) I suggest you register on this website.
http://search.labs.familysearch.org/recordsearch/start.html?datestamp=1206869134890#start
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Offline carol8353

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Re: carolan and jones - Mayo: lynch, kelly and magee - Dublin
« Reply #4 on: Thursday 18 June 09 22:58 BST (UK) »
Eileen P Carolan married Brandon J Lynch in Coventry in Dec 1/4 of 1950 ref 9c page 1498

You have to search through page by page for those records,they have npt been transcribed on the Free BMD site yet.

The A* that Diddy mentioned earlier was referring to a Carolan family tree on Ancestry.Is that yours?

Carol
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Offline dermot lynch

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Re: carolan and jones - Mayo: lynch, kelly and magee - Dublin
« Reply #5 on: Friday 19 June 09 05:31 BST (UK) »
In the words of Neil Sedaka...Oh Carol, I am such a fool...I should have realised it wasn't a good idea to post my email address but I wasn't sure how the system worked.  Anyway, as far as the info you have supplied, what can I say!  You have achieved in hours what my daughter and I have failed to achieve in months.  Through you, we now know for sure that mum's birth was in 1929.  We also finally have confirmation of her marriage and the year.  Both of these have been contentious points because mum had always said she married at 25 but if she was born in 1929 that would have put her marriage date in 1954, after the birth of my sister Brenda (1951) and myself (1953).  Had you given us the birth date alone then it would have seemed that she was married in 1954 but by also providing the marriage year, you have shown that she was married before we were born and that her statement of been married at 25 was incorrect.  My father had said that he married at 26 and given that he was born in 1925, it put the date at 1951.  So as you can see, you have provided very valuable information, which will now settle a few questions once and for all.  I thank you on behalf of myself and my daughter Nicole for your time and effort in uncovering these facts for us.  As far as the tree on Ancestry.com, I don't think the Carolan one you and Diddy are referring to is our one.  The one my daughter started is on Ancestry.com.au and it is called Edwards_Lyndon/Carolan_Lynch family tree.  The Edwards_Lyndon comes from her mother's side of the family.  Thanks again for your great effort and valuable time given.  It is truly appreciated.  Cheers Dermot

Offline carol8353

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Re: carolan and jones - Mayo: lynch, kelly and magee - Dublin
« Reply #6 on: Friday 19 June 09 07:30 BST (UK) »
Dermot,

Go back into your first post and click on modify-you can then remove your email address(before the spammers catch on  ;D)

You can obtain any certificate online from England or Wales by going to http://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/ at a cost of 7.

Use the refs I gave you for your parents marriage one.

The irish ones are available from http://www.groireland.ie/ but you have to post(snail mail!) the order form to them.

Carrol
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Offline diddymiller

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Re: carolan and jones - Mayo: lynch, kelly and magee - Dublin
« Reply #7 on: Friday 19 June 09 08:29 BST (UK) »
Dermot, i apologise - i should have realised as new to this you wouldn't necessarily understand my shorthand!!
A* is indeed the online family history site and the tree i found is your daughters.

i did have a quick look for the murder of PJ. do we know what the initials stood for?
he is not mentioned on the Murder UK site nor on the unsolved in the uk site - this does not include 'the troubles'as they put it in Ireland. also could not find his death. he too could be on the pilot site? not sure what date they go up to without looking.

Diddy
Cooks -(Clackmannanshire); Erskines - (fife); Youngs - (Dunfermline); Charltons - (Tyneside ); Skillings - (N.Norfolk); Legg - (N.Yorks, Tyneside) ; Carter - (Durham); Miller -(suffolk); Pattinson -(Lincs)

Offline carol8353

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Re: carolan and jones - Mayo: lynch, kelly and magee - Dublin
« Reply #8 on: Friday 19 June 09 08:42 BST (UK) »
Diddy,

On the Family Search site there is a birth of a Patrick Joseph Carolan also in Mayo-which may be him.But of course it's not complete yet.

They don't have the marriage of Thomas though- maybe it occured in the UK?

Carol

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