Author Topic: carolan and jones - Mayo: lynch, kelly and magee - Dublin  (Read 6297 times)

Offline diddymiller

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Re: carolan and jones - Mayo: lynch, kelly and magee - Dublin
« Reply #18 on: Saturday 20 June 09 12:30 BST (UK) »
Hi Dermot & Carol,
Dermot - you will definately get hooked on this lark. i started about 6/7 years ago during an illness when i had lots of time. it is very compulsive and its not just the names / years for me, i love finding out about he history/social side of my family. I don't have any connection with ireland actually. my family descend from the NE of England and Fife in Scotland. scottish records are a lot easier as they are all on one site! and we can print out certs.
I like helping others - i used to be an information librarian so guess its nature. but yes sometimes i can get confused. i had a reply today from one i had posted way back and then had to go through the whole thing to remember!
your workings out of the PJ dates are useful. I'm glad its wasn't the 5 year old boy.

Diddy
Cooks -(Clackmannanshire); Erskines - (fife); Youngs - (Dunfermline); Charltons - (Tyneside ); Skillings - (N.Norfolk); Legg - (N.Yorks, Tyneside) ; Carter - (Durham); Miller -(suffolk); Pattinson -(Lincs)

Offline diddymiller

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Re: carolan and jones - Mayo: lynch, kelly and magee - Dublin
« Reply #19 on: Saturday 20 June 09 13:01 BST (UK) »
Have just found a useful site but records are only 1800- 1900
tried going back from 1900 for Thomas birth. first i found are 3 in 1887 but you need credits to view full details.
was actually looking for newspapers online. they only go back so far. then thought mayo library might hold older copies - even if PJ died in England would prob have been reported in local paper? would prob need more idea of date though. might be worth contacting library at:

Mayo Library Headquarters,
John Moore Rd.,
Castlebar,
Co. Mayo,
Ireland
Phone +353 (0)94 9047922 Fax: +353 (0)94 9026491
E-Mail: [email protected]
Web: www.mayolibrary.ie

Diddy
Cooks -(Clackmannanshire); Erskines - (fife); Youngs - (Dunfermline); Charltons - (Tyneside ); Skillings - (N.Norfolk); Legg - (N.Yorks, Tyneside) ; Carter - (Durham); Miller -(suffolk); Pattinson -(Lincs)

Offline diddymiller

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Re: carolan and jones - Mayo: lynch, kelly and magee - Dublin
« Reply #20 on: Saturday 20 June 09 13:03 BST (UK) »
sorry mind ahead of fingers - that site is :

www.mayoancestors.com

Diddy
Cooks -(Clackmannanshire); Erskines - (fife); Youngs - (Dunfermline); Charltons - (Tyneside ); Skillings - (N.Norfolk); Legg - (N.Yorks, Tyneside) ; Carter - (Durham); Miller -(suffolk); Pattinson -(Lincs)


Offline carol8353

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Re: carolan and jones - Mayo: lynch, kelly and magee - Dublin
« Reply #21 on: Saturday 20 June 09 17:03 BST (UK) »
Diddy

Good thinking about "even if PJ died in England" .....that's exactly what happened when my father in law died in 1957 in Hertfordshire.
It was reported in the Clare Champion back in Ennis....his home town.

I'm going to plod through a few more years of deaths now.

Carol
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Offline diddymiller

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Re: carolan and jones - Mayo: lynch, kelly and magee - Dublin
« Reply #22 on: Saturday 20 June 09 17:13 BST (UK) »
carol. which death index are you using - i can't find him anywhere online?

thinking about newspapers etc comes from my librarians mind!!  8)

Diddy
Cooks -(Clackmannanshire); Erskines - (fife); Youngs - (Dunfermline); Charltons - (Tyneside ); Skillings - (N.Norfolk); Legg - (N.Yorks, Tyneside) ; Carter - (Durham); Miller -(suffolk); Pattinson -(Lincs)

Offline carol8353

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Re: carolan and jones - Mayo: lynch, kelly and magee - Dublin
« Reply #23 on: Saturday 20 June 09 17:25 BST (UK) »
Find my Past-although Ancestry also has the FULL indexes,others are only partially transcribed and do not cover the period we're after.

Carol
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Offline carol8353

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Re: carolan and jones - Mayo: lynch, kelly and magee - Dublin
« Reply #24 on: Saturday 20 June 09 17:57 BST (UK) »
Well I've now done the deaths from 1939-49 inc. and not found a Patrick J Carolan of the right sort of age.

However I don't know if this is relevant at all but I did find the death of a 3 year old Maureen S J Carolan in Coventry in Dec 1/4 of 1943.
Looking for her birth finds it was in Mar 1940 and her mothers maiden name was Carroll.

Do you know if PJ married? Maybe Coventry had more Irish than I realised,although Carolan is fairly uncommon a surname anywhere in the UK back then.

Carol
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Offline dermot lynch

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Re: carolan and jones - Mayo: lynch, kelly and magee - Dublin
« Reply #25 on: Sunday 21 June 09 00:16 BST (UK) »
G'day Carol and Diddy...I don't know if PJ ever married.  At the moment I can't do much with the info on the death of the infant Maureen Carolan as I just don't have any pieces to join it to just yet.  I have the same problem with the Thomas Carolans born in 1887.  Those three records give me info on his parents but I need to link my mother back to his birth or a census record or such that provides the link first before I can have any idea if any of those three are connected.  Later on the trail that information will hopefully be invaluable.  This is where (as you both are probably only too aware) it gets murky.  I have found a number of Thomas Carolans that might fit but I can't fit them without the missing pieces.  I didn't want to add to the confusion by throwing them in until they could be linked, so remember, I have no connection for these.
Thomas Carolan
1911 Census
Born          Dublin            ( I would have thought born Mayo but Dublin is possible)
Age           15                  ( This makes his birth 1896.  Would be thirty three mum was born)
Father       James            46 years of age - born 1865 in Meath
Wife          Anne              40 years of age - born 1871 in Dublin
Married     16 years         Would be 1895
Daughter  Anne               12 years of age - born 1899 in Dublin
Daughter  Bridget             9 years of age - born 1902 in Dublin
Son           James              6 years of age - born 1905 in dublin
Address                            14 Mabbot Street North Dock Dublin

That one I came across whilst looking for my father's father (Christie) and in one of those moments of confusion I ended up looking for Thomas in Dublin.  Dublin is not impossible but wouldn't have been my first choice given that mum was born in Mayo.  If one of the kids or his wife had been named Eileen or Phiomena I would have given this one greater strength, given my mum's name and the tradition of naming the kids after other members of the family tree.  If I stretch for a connection, Bridget was also the name of one of my mum's sisters who was run over and killed when she was about 55 and James could be the J in PJ.  No sign of a "P" though.  So for the moment, this one just sits in the filing cabinet, so to speak.

Thomas Carolan
Mayo birth records (mayoancestors.com)
Baptised  1887   Father Thomas Carolan   Mother  Catherine Walsh   South Mayo
Born        1884   Father Thomas Carolan   Mother  Mary Walsh           South Mayo
Born        1884   Father Thomas Carolan   Mother  Mary Walsh           North Mayo

Those last two are either the same one with an error in the locations or there were two Thomas Carolans who just happened to both be married to a Mary Walsh, both in Mayo, one north and one south and both gave birth in 1884 and named their child Thomas.  Seems more likely that it is a duplication with location error.  Even the other one (1887) seems odd.  Two Thomas Carolans, one married to Catherine Walsh and the other to Mary Walsh, both in South Mayo, both giving birth around the same period and both naming their child Thomas.  Anyway, there is another one.

Born 1887 Baptised   1st November, 1887   Knockbrega Burrishoole/Newport Parish North Mayo
Father           Dominick Carolan    28 years of age  born  1859
Mother          Mary Coyne             24 years of age born   1863
Sponsor 1     John O'Boyle
Sponsor 2    Kate Moran

I found a Dominick Carolan baptised in 1859 in Louth, St Peters Parish Honeymore/Chester Lane

Also found in 1901 census

Dominic Carlon   aged 55   from Knockbrega
Mary                   aged 50
Michael               aged 14
Thomas              aged 11
Owen                 aged 9
Kate                  aged 7
Annie                aged 5

This census listing fits the records above except for the ages of Dominic and Mary.  Surname shows Carlon not Carolan and Dominick shows without the "K".  Thomas's age is out by a couple of years.  What makes me think this is inaccurate is the age of the parents and the kids.  Annie is only 5 but her mother is 50, Kate is 7 and Owen 9.  Unusual to have three kids after the age of 40.  Now, if you knock ten years off the parents ages, it all fits a lot better.  Having said all that, I have nothing to link this to my mum's dad, so it too is in the filing cabinet.


Offline dermot lynch

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Re: carolan and jones - Mayo: lynch, kelly and magee - Dublin
« Reply #26 on: Sunday 21 June 09 01:56 BST (UK) »
continued...ran past maximum allowed...

I found three Thomas Carolan's in WW1.  Mum had said that her father was in the British Army.  Two of them are in Irish regiments.
The first one's registration card shows Thomas Carolan and someone has written on it, " see Carlan".
Royal Irish Regiment   R/9696  Private   30th December, 1908 - 22nd November, 1916.
To have joined in 1908 he would of had to have been 18 or just a few years younger, looking 18.  So his birth would have to be between 1890 (if 18 when he joined) back to 1887 (if 21 when he joined).  If this is mum's dad then we can put his birth as no later than 1892. 
The second one reads
Connaught Rangers and Cameron Highlanders   5743  S/49964  Private.

Again, I have nothing to link these to mum.

I found another record that was for WW1 Service and it was Thomas Carolan Meath.  That's all I have on that one.

Just jumping back to PJ for the moment.  Searching the newspaper articles for PJ can bring up  PJ Carolan who was involved in the theatre as a writer or director of plays.  I have nothing to suggest that this is the same PJ.  So these reference could be to him or to the other. 
Saturday 26th July, 1947 Connaught Tribune, Page 9
Saturday 15th February, 1958 Connaught Tribune, Page 13
Monday 23rd January, 1967 Irish Independent Page 6

I have no idea what is on those pages except that according to the search engine PJ Carolan is mentioned.

Anyway, that is just about all that I have on PJ.

I have found 1901 census records on a number of Thomas Carolans but can't link them to mum.  I am not sure if providing this unlinked info is helpful or just adds to the confusion.  That is why I haven't presented it before.  What are your thoughts?  Should I give the unlinked stuff?  If so I will provide the info I have on the census I just mentioned.  I also have unlinked info on Helena Jones and Christy Lynch and Sarah Kelly etc.  I just don't want to add to the confusion.  Let me know what will help?

I know I keep saying it but I do want to thank you for your time and effort, it is truly appreciated.  Cheers Dermot