Help to date Liverpool photo please

[Jumbuck]

I was wondering if anyone may be able to give me a clue as the the approximate year this photo would have been taken

Kind Regards
Peter Euston

[Gadget]

Hi Peter

A rough guess - trams, ladies in long skirts, little lad in knee breeches. I'd say late 1890s early 1900s.


Gadget

[ainslie]

Even up to 1914?
A

[old rowley]

Peter,
Can you post the reverse of this image as it may give some clues as to the date. At the moment all I can tell you is that it is a (John) Valentine's postcard, number 08400, and that it would date from the very late 1890's into the early 1900's, no later than 1910 I would have thought going by the length of the skirt worn by the woman that is in view. There are coloured versions of this postcard for sale on an internet auction site and the sellers have placed the date as being circa 1904.

old rowley

[Geoff-E]

Electrification of the tramway system began in 1898 http://liverpolitan.im/tram/tramintro.htm

[Phodgetts]

The building on the left still stands. It is Grade III listed and is the World Museum. Looks like an interesting place to visit.

[lesleyhannah]

The museum is a lovely building. There is also the Central library, and the Walker Art gallery in the same block. Both are wonderful buildings - the library had some magnificent reading rooms - I do hope they haven't been filled with computers.

[km1971]

The building on the right isn't bad either - http://www.virtualtours360.net/vtupload/liverpool/stgeorgeshall/stgeorgeshall.html

It is Grade I. You will probably have to watch the Antiques Roadshow to see the floor tiles though. The buildings on the right are Grade II*.

Ken

[Phodgetts]

Hope this helps date the image to within a gnats whisker. There is an image available on ebay here;

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/LIVERPOOL-Technical-School-Tram-1903-PPC_W0QQitemZ390056852041QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Collectables_Postcards_MJ?hash=item5ad1333a49&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=65%3A12|66%3A4|39%3A1|72%3A1684|293%3A1|294%3A200

I know the links are long, I just hope they work. It is the same location, and style of post card (re ambiance), same type of open top tram too! I realise the photo could have been taken at anytime prior to Oct 1903, but note that the overhead cables are in place which means that it could not have been taken before 1898 according to Geoff's link. When did the open top trams begin to be covered in upstairs, as it seems they were eventually all covered up top as in this style, like a veranda.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/y9162-Liverpool-Tram-231-photo_W0QQitemZ360154318765QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Collectables_Postcards_MJ?hash=item53dadec7ad&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=65%3A12|66%3A4|39%3A1|72%3A1684|293%3A1|294%3A200

In 1905 some trams look to be covered up top. So I think it is fairly safe to say pre 1905.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/1905-pu-pc-Castle-Street-Town-Hall-Liverpool-Tram_W0QQitemZ310124521533QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Collectables_Postcards_MJ?hash=item4834dca83d&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=65%3A12|66%3A4|39%3A1|72%3A1684|293%3A1|294%3A200

Colour cards began in about 1907 and here is a card from after that time circa 1920, note the veranda's are still in use;

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/LIVERPOOL-c-1920-PPC-LORD-STREET-TRAMS-SHOPS_W0QQitemZ160285430802QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Collectables_Postcards_MJ?hash=item2551c19412&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=65%3A12|66%3A4|39%3A1|72%3A1684|293%3A1|294%3A200

However by 1931 trams were being renovated and the whole of the upstairs was being covered as in this card of the type;

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Pamlin-Postcard-Liverpool-Corporation-Bogie-Tram_W0QQitemZ360124800918QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Collectables_Postcards_MJ?hash=item53d91c5f96&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=65%3A12|66%3A4|39%3A1|72%3A1684|293%3A1|294%3A200


The trams were renumbered and re-entered service. Even today, railway stock that is renovated is always given a new number to identify it from non-renovated stock.

The bubble bodied trams were introduced after WW2 as far as I can tell.


Hope these bits and pieces help at least a bit.


During this bit of digging I also came across this sad image of the end of trams in Liverpool;

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/y9160-Liverpool-Tram-Last-Tram-Week-photo_W0QQitemZ290316565286QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Collectables_Postcards_MJ?hash=item4398373b26&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=65%3A12|66%3A4|39%3A1|72%3A1684|293%3A1|294%3A200

Unbelievable that they only lasted 60 years and the system as a whole 87, and yet after only 30 - 40 years after closure there has been talk of re-building the system. What goes around comes around eh?!

Interesting subject, I have enjoyed this one.

Philip