John CARR marriage c 1832 Lane End? COMPLETE Thank you

[Ceeoh]

Hi
James Carr marrying Mary Ann Dafter certainly fits as Eliza Carr marries John Bird and they are witnesses at James's marriage.

Josiah Carr is more difficult - who would the Josiah Carr be who was a witness at the marriage?  Bridegroom Josiah Carr, witness Josiah Carr.

Perhaps Josiah came between James 1828 and Eliza 1831, or Martha 1833 and George 1836

Do you have the marriage dates of Eliza Carr/ John Bird and Josiah Carr/Charlotte Hambleden

Thanks
Margaret

[matt94]

No I don't know who Josiah is but the father and father's occupation match. My guess he was baptised at Great Marlow. I'll put out a request for his baptism.

the dates are:
Eliza 11 Apr 1852
Josiah 24 May 1858

Matt

[Ceeoh]

Hi Matt,
Have picked up the replies to your query on my behalf, many thanks.

Did a little digging last night and also came up with Josiah (b1822) 1851 on the census index, but did not know his mother was Ann.

1861 he reflects as born 1817.  There is a Josiah aged 10 Wycombe 1871.

This is an odd one because his marriage says son of John, and one of the witnesses was John H Sharp.  A witness at George Carr and Ruth Taylor's marriage was John Harding Sharp.  There's a connection somewhere.

I did wonder if he was a natural child born perhpaps when Sophia was very young (about 16), but no way could she be the mother if he was born 1817!

I wonder if Josiah's father is shown on the 1851?  Could he be a natural son of John (1806)?  Then again he could be John's (1806) brother.  This is getting very involved.

I had a look for Charlotte Ellis's first marriage to Hambleden but didn't find it.

Thanks again
Margaret

[Orpheus]

Hello Margaret

I've also done a little digging and discovered that there were three Josiah CARRs in the 1861 census:

The first was born in Bucks circa 1821, is resident in Oxfordshire and has a wife named Charlotte.  This must be the Josiah, son of John, who married Charlotte HAMBLEDEN at Lane End on 24 May 1858.  He is shown in the 1851 census in Dean Street, Great Marlow, aged 29 years, unmarried, a journeyman shoemaker living with his widowed mother, Ann CARR.

The second Josiah was born in Bucks circa 1840, is resident in Bucks and has a wife named Louisa.  This must be the Josiah who married Louisa FORD at Bisham, Berks, on 23 June 1860.  The IGI record gives this person's father as Richard CARR, and the baptism of Josia, son of Richard and Hannah CARR is recorded at Great Marlow on 31 Dec 1839.  Richard's occupation is given as shoemaker.  From his age given in the 1851 census I assume that Richard is the person baptised at Great Marlow on 9 June 1811, the son of John and Ann CARR.

The third Josiah was born in Bucks circa 1817, is resident in Bucks and has a wife named Ruth.  This is, in fact, an error as this person is really named Joshua.  Joshua CARR married Ruth JIMMOTT at Lane End on 17 Mar 1844.

Although there is no baptism to be found for Josiah circa 1821 at Great Marlow the evidence suggests that he is the son of John and Ann CARR and therefore a brother of the Richard CARR who had a son named Josiah.  He does not belong in the family of John and Sophia CARR.

Orpheus

[Ceeoh]

Many thanks Orpheus

I rather think there is a connection somewhere between the two familes - based only on the marriage witness John H Sharp (Josiah and Charlotte) and John Harding Sharp (George and Ruth).

Perhaps John b1806 (wife Sophia), Richard b1811 (wife  Hannah) and Josiah bc1821 (wife Charlotte) were brothers, however, not sure as John was born in Oxfordshire as per the 1851.

Thanks again, it certainly rules Josiah out as issue of John and Sophia.

Regards
Margaret

[Ceeoh]

Just had another thought on the brother theory.  John and Sophia had ten children, five of them sons.  Going by the patterns of the times wouldn't they have named at least one of them Richard or Josiah?

They have James, George, William (Sophia's father's name), John (father's name), and Charles.

Perhaps the witness was just a coincidence after all!

Margaret

[Orpheus]

Hello Margaret

Yes, I think the witness was a coincidence.  Both marriages took place at Lane End and John H. SHARP may well have been the parish clerk.

However, it is possible that John, Richard and Josiah were brothers.  It would be a good idea to post a request for John's baptism in Great Haseley on the Oxfordshire Lookup requests.

Orpheus

PS.  I forgot to mention that there is a baptism for James, son of John and Sophia CARR, at Great Marlow on 29 June 1828

[Ceeoh]

Many thanks again Orpheus - never thought about the parish clerk!

Will post a request for John, Great Haseley, but think I need to check the 1861 and 71 to see where he says he was born.  41 Says Buckinghamshire. 51 says Great Haseley Oxfordshire.

Just to confuse the issue!  There was a John Carr, son of John and Ann, baptised St Sepulchre London in 1806.

Regards
Margaret

[Ceeoh]

If anyone is still following this thread I think we can now rule Josiah (son of Ann) out of the picture.  As suggested I placed a request on the Oxfordshire list and received a wonderful response giving me John's data from the 1861 and 1871 census, his baptism, a sibling, and data on his son William.

John is the son of Richard Carr and Elizabeth Parsler and was born in Great Haseley Oxfordshire 1804

Margaret