Author Topic: *Completed* 1841 Census look-up SYMISON  (Read 9566 times)

Offline Macharskin

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*Completed* 1841 Census look-up SYMISON
« on: Tuesday 14 July 09 12:17 BST (UK) »
I would much appreciate someone looking up William Symeson and family in 1841 Census for me please.

The family I am interested in appeared in 1851 Census for Ronaldsay St Mary parish:

William, Hd, 54 Fisherman
Margaret, 46
Barbara, 12
Anne, 10
James, 1

I am trying to establish William's parents, but have conflicting DOB for this particular William. He married Margaret Taylor 1836.

Regards, M.

Offline hume

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Re: 1841 Census look-up SYMISON
« Reply #1 on: Tuesday 14 July 09 12:43 BST (UK) »
Hi M.,

There is this census entry on FreeCen. They have transcribed William's occupation as tailor, but I wonder if it could be sailor instead. It's a common mistake. It also looks as if William or Margaret was married before (prob. William).

Address: Sandwick, South Ronaldsay, Orkney
William Symeson, m, 40, tailor, b. in county
Margaret Symeson, f, 30, -, b. in county
Isabella Symeson, f, 12, -, b. in county
James Symeson, m, 10, -, b. in county
Barbara Symeson, f, 3, -, b. in county
Anne Symeson, f, 10 months, -, b. in county

As for his birth and parents, have you tried his death certificate if he died after 1855? That should give you a start with them. :)

hume


Offline Macharskin

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Re: 1841 Census look-up SYMISON
« Reply #2 on: Tuesday 14 July 09 13:38 BST (UK) »
Hi Hume,

Thank you for that - I hadn't found them on Ancestry earlier. He is my man - and as to the tailor sailor matter - that's what misled me!

I already had a SP death certificate of a William d 1857 (parents William and Isabella) whose occupation was entered as Tailor, but as that didn't square with Fisherman (1851 census) and Seaman* (Margaret's death registration) I had started to look at other possibilities.

Now I have the man, I can see that this William may well have married Barbara Rusland 1822 previously, and the son James in the 1851 census was issue from that earlier marriage.

Thanks again. M.

(* corrected from Sailor in original post)

Offline kirkmichael

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Re: 1841 Census look-up SYMISON
« Reply #3 on: Tuesday 14 July 09 18:27 BST (UK) »
Aye weel, jist a nice simple wee query, ken, before tea (the Scots 'high' version) - have a look at the 1841 census enumeration book image to see if it's a T or an S in the occupation field!


Not so easy, however, as there is no matching family on ScotlandsPeople; a couple of close matches for William aged 40, surname SYMESON or close variants, but no matching family group.


Now, FreeCen transcriptions are among the most reliable, so let's put faith in it, and look for all sorts of possible variants, choosing Isabella aged 12 as the least commonly occurring given name.


Only when finally searching on 'Isa *SON aged 12' in Orkney did the FreeCen matching probable family grouping come up. 

(On ScotlandsPeople, unless the option is unchecked, there's an automatic final wildcard for the given name, i.e. searching for 'Isa' is equivalent to searching for ' Isa* '.)


And there was just the single match for wee 12 year old Isabella !


The normally reasonably reliable ScotlandsPeople transcription falls flat on it face in this instance, the surname having been transcribed as GARSON :-\

OK, I'll admit that the enumerator's hand ain't that great, and the image is a bit messy, although not that faint, but no way is the surname GARSON; but then, and here's the  rub, I knew what it should be ! ;D


Let that be a lesson in terms of how even normally reliable websites can get it completely wrong.  OK, had we been talking an Ancestry transcription, I wouldn't have been that surprised  :-X, but for SP's sub-contractor to get it that wrong worries me.


And then, of course, this example demonstrates the continuing great value, and extremely high standard of the transcriptions on FreeCen.  FreeCen operate a system where, if a transcriber can't be sure of an entry, it gets referred to someone more expert, and if they can't sort out the problem, it gets referred further to an even better expert, and so on, until there's clear agreement as to the entry.


And after all that, was it Sailor or Tailor !  Quite clearly from several other "S"s on the page it was Tailor.

Wullie


PS I'd suggest a revisit to Margaret's death register entry to doublecheck that the occupation is Sailor rather than Tailor !



Offline hume

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Re: 1841 Census look-up SYMISON
« Reply #4 on: Tuesday 14 July 09 18:51 BST (UK) »
Hi Wullie,

I do agree that FreeCen transcriptions are usually pretty good, but I thought this may just be a blip in their record. Obviously not. ;D However again using their index (second time lucky) I cannot find a match for the same family group as M. found in 1851. Even without William, who may have been at sea.

Hope something can be found. :)

hume

Offline kirkmichael

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Re: 1841 Census look-up SYMISON
« Reply #5 on: Tuesday 14 July 09 19:14 BST (UK) »
Hi Wullie,

I do agree that FreeCen transcriptions are usually pretty good, but I thought this may just be a blip in their record. Obviously not. ;D However again using their index (second time lucky) I cannot find a match for the same family group as M. found in 1851. Even without William, who may have been at sea.

Hope something can be found. :)

hume

Hi Hume

Were it not for the fact that we go on holiday on Thursday, departing from Glasgow at 7 am on Thursday morning for two weeks in Lanzarote (check in time 5 am :o), this thread would have been my cue for writing an article on (a) the different approaches to indexing, - true 'double entry, and so on, along with (b) who uses what system?, e.g. Ancestry, FreeCen, GROS/ScotlandsPeople, including all the rather subtle variants on the various approaches, and the consequences for researchers.

This would have/may still will include a further look at whether Ancestry use some form of OCR (optical character recognition) or equivalent software.  A year or so ago, during a very detailed Google I came across an article in an obscure technical journal that very clearly implied that Ancestry did indeed use OCR or some equivalent character recognition software, which fitted in with my own opinion that so many of the Ancestry mis-transcriptions that I've seen could only derive from the use of such software.

However, should I appear on Thursday very early morning with my laptop over my shoulder, then, to use a guid Scots expression, I'd probably get ma heid in ma hauns  ::)

Wullie

Offline kirkmichael

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Re: 1841 Census look-up SYMISON
« Reply #6 on: Tuesday 14 July 09 19:16 BST (UK) »
Duplicate post deleted

Wullie

Offline akc

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Re: 1841 Census look-up SYMISON
« Reply #7 on: Tuesday 14 July 09 20:18 BST (UK) »
on South Ronaldsay CDR,s William Symeson died 1871 aged 65 at Barswick, S Ronaldsay. parents James Symeson and Jane Rosie, informant James Rorie,s mark.

akc

This one is probably not right, it says he is single! sorry
Dumfriesshire: Bell, Kerr, Dickson, Hetherington
Orkney: Cursiter, Peace, Drever, Cooper, Paterson, Brock, Leslie, Malcomson, Miller, Scott
Cumberland: Charlton, Young

Offline akc

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Re: 1841 Census look-up SYMISON
« Reply #8 on: Tuesday 14 July 09 20:31 BST (UK) »
Margaret Taylor, Widewall, S Ronaldsay died 1871 aged 67 widow of William Symison parents William Taylor and Isabella Dass, informant Peter Taylor brother

akc
Dumfriesshire: Bell, Kerr, Dickson, Hetherington
Orkney: Cursiter, Peace, Drever, Cooper, Paterson, Brock, Leslie, Malcomson, Miller, Scott
Cumberland: Charlton, Young