Author Topic: Sir Stanley Bell, Wigan or nearby  (Read 19682 times)

Offline fenty

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Sir Stanley Bell, Wigan or nearby
« on: Tuesday 21 July 09 17:20 BST (UK) »

Hi there,

I have done well on my grandmother's side (Slevin) in Wigan but have come to a full stop on the Bells.  Stanley was my grandfather and we know he had a brother Rowland (my late mother's information), but beyond that all we information we have is I think they were freight hauliers from the Borders.  My guess is it could be Dumfries, which was a huge enclave for the Bells and made sense with the West of England line.

Any information to help me really greatfully received. I am trying to do this myself, but have hit a hurdle here.

Regards
Sarah Fenton (Margaret Bell's daughter)

Offline Tati

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Re: Sir Stanley Bell, Wigan or nearby
« Reply #1 on: Tuesday 21 July 09 18:35 BST (UK) »
Hi Sarah,

Really not sure but I have identified a Stanley Bell with a brother Thomas Roland born 1905 (birth registration Thomas Roland Bell Dec 1905 Bolton).

Sir Stanley Bell was born 1899 according to this
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/A2A/records.aspx?cat=1162-mancath_2-4&cid=-1&Gsm=2008-06-18
Quote
In Memoriam, Sir Stanley Bell, OBE, JP, DL, 1899-1972. 12 noon. Address: Rt Hon Lord Hewlett, CBE.

The same sort of records exists for a Thomas Roland Bell:
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/A2A/records.aspx?cat=1162-mancath_2-4&cid=-1&Gsm=2008-06-18#-1
Quote
Memorial Service for Thomas Roland Bell, 25 Sep 1895 - 9 Dec 1976. Thursday 12 noon. Address: Rt Hon Lord Hewlett, Kt, CBE.
Checking the complete death index, it turns out Thomas was in fact born 10 years later (25 Sep 1905)

Do you have access to the 1901 census? There's a Stanley age 1 in a family headed by Thomas G(eorge) and Rebecca Bell at Manchester (RG13/3774 103 21). I don't have access to the 1911 details, but the 1911 census index seems to show that Thomas "Bowland" (sic) Hall Bell belonged to the same family.

I think the safest thing to do would be to get hold of Stanley's marriage certificate though, to check his father's name.

 :)
 "My dear, I think the English pronounce it 'appiness"  

I'm afraid of no ghost

Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline fenty

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Re: Sir Stanley Bell, Wigan or nearby
« Reply #2 on: Tuesday 21 July 09 18:56 BST (UK) »

Thank you very much indeed - this is a huge step, and my brother is tracking down the certificate from a half sister as we speak.

If there are any other thoughts please do revert, but will keep all posted of progress.

Kind regards
Sarah ;)


Offline Tati

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Re: Sir Stanley Bell, Wigan or nearby
« Reply #3 on: Tuesday 21 July 09 19:03 BST (UK) »
Just to add that the 1901 census for the above mentioned Stanley (please let me know if you need the census transcription) shows his birth place as Moston (Prestwich registration district), making this birth registration likely:

Stanley Bell
Dec quarter 1899 Prestwich 8d 426

Ties in with this possible death registration:
Sep quarter 1972 Preston 10f 720
Stanley Bell born 30 Oc 1899

 "My dear, I think the English pronounce it 'appiness"  

I'm afraid of no ghost

Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline fenty

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Re: Sir Stanley Bell, Wigan or nearby
« Reply #4 on: Wednesday 22 July 09 10:46 BST (UK) »

I had a little search this morning and that Census record shows Stanley's potential father as Thomas George born in 1871 who was a wagon builder, which would fit with the rail freight.

Cannot see any further back yet.

Thank you once again for your help.

Kind regards
Sarah

Offline Tati

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Re: Sir Stanley Bell, Wigan or nearby
« Reply #5 on: Wednesday 22 July 09 10:59 BST (UK) »
Cannot see any further back yet.
Shame the free 1911 census index doesn't show birth places - I played around with it a bit and it doesn't appear to be Aspull.

There seems to be one only Thomas George Bell registered in Lancashire ca. 1871 (Jun 1871 Bury), the son of Joseph and Margaret. The 1891 census - in Great Lever / Darcy Lever - shows his birthplace as Elton. The 1881 census, in Elton, says he was born Walmersley.

As it happens, he's a Railway Wagon Builder in 1891 (RG12/3126 27 16), just as his dad.

 :)
 "My dear, I think the English pronounce it 'appiness"  

I'm afraid of no ghost

Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline fenty

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Re: Sir Stanley Bell, Wigan or nearby
« Reply #6 on: Thursday 30 July 09 09:14 BST (UK) »

Tati - I have made contact with Thomas Roland's grandson through my brother - who has let me have a wonderful lot of data on the Bell freight side - I have tried to cut and paste it back on this reply to you, as you have helped so much and thought it would be an exciting update. 

However this system does not seem to like cut and pasting from emails and just bats out a copyright warning message!  Do you have a direct email?

Kind regards
Sarah

Offline Tati

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Re: Sir Stanley Bell, Wigan or nearby
« Reply #7 on: Thursday 30 July 09 09:18 BST (UK) »
That's good news, Sarah  :D

Surely you'd better copy it on here for others to see.

To paste something into these boards, using ctrl+v instead of right click 'paste' should work  :) 
 "My dear, I think the English pronounce it 'appiness"  

I'm afraid of no ghost

Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline fenty

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Re: Sir Stanley Bell, Wigan or nearby
« Reply #8 on: Thursday 30 July 09 11:21 BST (UK) »
Update from Thomas Roland Bell's grandson, living in Gloucestershire.

Sarah, it was very good to hear from you; especially as it was "out of the blue".
 
It is good that you are so keen on the family tree project; herewith some further pointers.
 
From memory our grandparents elder sister was called Florence; she married, I think, Randell, surname Pearson; they had 2 sons: Noel who I think must be in his 80's now & Christopher who I think commited suicide many years ago. I think Florence is 2 years older than your grandfather. There was also a brother called George (I think born about 1901/3); I recall he had 4 children but I do not know much about them, as I have never met them; I am sure 1 was called John Bell (I have some recollection that your grandfather helped him when he was young) & think they lived in East Anglia.
 
As for Astley, it was founded in June 1935 by your grandfather  (+ 3 others) as Astley Industrial Trust, & had offices at 26 Cross Street, Manchester. It was a Private Company until 1957 when it became Public.
 
Standard Railway Wagon Company was incorporated in April 1933, by your & my grandfathers, & in 1954 it was taken into Astley. Bell interests in wagon building started in 1880, initially with the Bolton Railway Wagon Company & then in 1910 with Central Wagon Company. There is also the Lancashire & Yorkshire Wagon works at Heywood, Lancashire which Standard took over in 1957 (from recollection our great grandfather Thomas George Bell had been involved with this in the past).

One further thought. Thomas George Bell (great Grandfather) was married to our Great Grandmother (mother of all 4; ie Florence, Stanley, George & Roland) initially; from my recollection she died when my grandfather was about 5 (circa 1910) & TGB then married again (but I can't recall her name, though I have heard her refered to as "ma Bell"). I think she lived until the 1950's/60's.
 
Let me know how you progress.