Author Topic: Shaw - brick wall - advice and look up - *COMPLETED*  (Read 6805 times)

Offline shaw54

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Shaw - brick wall - advice and look up - *COMPLETED*
« on: Wednesday 22 July 09 07:20 BST (UK) »
Hi Cheshire,

I'm having quite a struggle breaking through this very solid brick wall.  Being in Australia is also making it very difficult.  I'll do my best to keep this as brief as possible.  I'm really very sorry if this post is way outside normal bounds re: length.  I'm hoping someone might be able to assist me.  I have an ancestor James Shaw b 1778 and he is identified in the 1841 census as an inmate of the Macclesfield Union Workshouse, along with his D-in-Law Sarah Shaw (41) and G-son Nathaniel (10).  James had a son Samuel, Nathaniel's Dad and this is where the brick wall begins.  I've not been able to locate anything for a Samuel Shaw that seems to match with Sarah and Nathaniel.  Using the Cheshire P.R.Dbase I've located a possible James married to a Sarah Dutton in 1806 at Audlem and have assumed that as this is the closet match I am able to find, they then had a son Samuel perhaps around that time or a bit later.  Samuel also married a Sarah (or may not have married).  Her surname is not known although I have info via Parkhurst Prison records that as Nathaniel's mother her surname is recorded as Hodgkinson, which means she either remaried sometime between1841 - 1847, or reverted to a maiden name.  I haven't really been able to track that or for that matter confirm the Parkhurst info, it came through to me via other sources.  So...Nathaniel's Dad Samuel is the main problem at this stage.  I just can't seem to find a close match anywhere including through an Ancestry membership.  Can anyone help with advice or even a look up to set me in some direction.

Any help or advice will greatly appreciated.

Steve Shaw
Perth
Western Australia. 

Offline trish1120

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Re: Shaw - brick wall - advice and look up
« Reply #1 on: Wednesday 22 July 09 09:46 BST (UK) »
Hi Steve :)
Welcome to Rootschat. I am sure that you will be helped here by more than just me.
First of all how did you come to the conclusion that the 3 Shaws in the Workhouse are your family line and related? What Census entries or info do you have to confirm this? It just helps to have a bit of background when searching ;)

Going by your info as son Nathaniel was born c 1831 there is this marriage;

Samuel SHAW
Sarah IBBERTSON
13 October 1828, Mottram in Longdendale, Cheshire
Extracted entry IGI at Familysearch

Cant find a marriage of Sarah Shaw to a Hodgkinson at least not in Cheshire between the dates you mention.

Cheers,
Trish

EDIT, they say you learn something new everyday. I just noticed on Census all the Shaws have the no. 14 next to them!


All Census Look Ups Are Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Cummins, Miskelly(IRELAND + NZ) ,Leggett (SFK + NFK ENGLAND + NZ),Purdy ( NBL ENGLAND + NZ ), Shaw YKS, LANCs + NZ), Holdsworth(LINCS +LANCS + NZ), Moloney, Dean, Fitzpatrick, ( County Down,IRE) Newby(NBL.ENG, Costello(IRE), Ivers, Murray(IRE),Reay(NBL.ENG) Reid (BERW.SCOTLAND)

Offline trish1120

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Re: Shaw - brick wall - advice and look up
« Reply #2 on: Wednesday 22 July 09 10:17 BST (UK) »
There is also this possibility;

Samel SHAW
Birth, 11 February 1799
Christened, 31 March 1799, Sandbach, Cheshire
Parents JAS and JANE
There are 2 siblings on batch Hannah 1801 and Cathe 1809.
All Census Look Ups Are Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Cummins, Miskelly(IRELAND + NZ) ,Leggett (SFK + NFK ENGLAND + NZ),Purdy ( NBL ENGLAND + NZ ), Shaw YKS, LANCs + NZ), Holdsworth(LINCS +LANCS + NZ), Moloney, Dean, Fitzpatrick, ( County Down,IRE) Newby(NBL.ENG, Costello(IRE), Ivers, Murray(IRE),Reay(NBL.ENG) Reid (BERW.SCOTLAND)


Offline shaw54

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Re: Shaw - brick wall - advice and look up
« Reply #3 on: Wednesday 22 July 09 11:00 BST (UK) »
Dear Trish, thanks so much for what you've done already. 

The #14 is the clue re: the family grouping at Macclesfield.  I've done a lot of research into all of that and it turns out that enumerators would mark off family members this way, particularly as it was not uncommon for entire families to wind up in a union poorhouse.  Samuel being missing is a bit interesting I think.

Re: the Shaws of Mottram in Longdendale, I had spent a lot of time researching that area.  There is a whole mob of them up that way that "travel" through the census' from 1841 through to 1901.  I have tracked this Samuel and Sarah and from memory they are together in 1841 and in Mottram as well as in subsequent census', with no mention of a Nathaniel in the family. 

Just so you know, my Nathaniel was sent to Parkhurst Prison in 1844 (13) and later transported to Western Australia in 1847 (16).

The Samuel born in Sandbach you've unearthed might be interesting.  mainly because of Nathaniel's 1844 court transcription that notes he was "...recently of Sandbach...".  Perhaps after macclesfield they may have returned back to home turf.

thank you again for looking this up for me.

kind regards

Steve S.
Perth Australia.

Offline Su

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Re: Shaw - brick wall - advice and look up
« Reply #4 on: Wednesday 22 July 09 19:54 BST (UK) »
Hi Steve
There is a marriage of a Samuel Shaw, Stone Mason, of Macclesfield to Sarah Mottershead Spinster of Macclesfield,
1/10/1820 married at Prestbury (which would more than likely have been St. Peter's) if this is of any interest to you.
There are two deaths for Samuel Shaw one in March qtr 1839 19 98 and Sep 1839 19 141, if one of these is your Samuel then that might be why the rest of the family were in the workhouse.

Very sad isn't it?

I can only find two Nathaniel Shaw marriages
one is to a Mary Barnett 16/9/1822 Wistaston (Nantwhich)
and
to Ellen Hatton 25/6/1671 St.Peter, Prestbury.
So there were at least a couple of Nathaniel Shaw's, whether they were related to your Shaw's though we cannot say.
It's interesting as to which side of the family your Nathaniel got his name (if at all).  I haven't been able to find a Nathaniel Mottershead or Hodgkinson.  Nor can I find a Sarah Hodgkinson marriage to a Shaw.

Kind regards
Su
Barnett Altrincham/Manchester
Bates Hindley Lancs
Bowyer Altrincham Cheshire
Cunliffe Hindley
Hollingworth Hale Barnes/Mobberley Ches
Jones Salford/Altrincham
Ramsdale Hindley Lancs
Timperley Warburton/Dunham Massey
Yarwood Great Budworth,Lymm,Dumham Massey

All Census look up transcriptions are Crown Copyright

Offline shaw54

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Re: Shaw - brick wall - advice and look up
« Reply #5 on: Thursday 23 July 09 07:47 BST (UK) »
Hi Su,

thanks a million for the research you've done for me.

The marriage of Samuel and Sarah in Macclesfield is very interesting as are the 2 Samuel deaths.  Can you advise if there is other info re: the marriage?   The death info appears to be from a deaths index, can you advise how I can go about getting a look at the actual certificates etc. or do I need to take a punt and pay for both certificates.

Your help is much appreciated at this end I can tell you.

No need to follow through on my Nathaniel.  He was transported to W.A. in 1847, eventually married here and never returned to England.

kind regards

Steve Shaw
Perth, Australia.

Offline Su

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Re: Shaw - brick wall - advice and look up
« Reply #6 on: Thursday 23 July 09 15:55 BST (UK) »
Hi Steve
I found the marriage on my CD of North and East Cheshire Marriage Index 1754-1837.  Unfortunately it only gives the information I have given you.
What you need now is some kind person to check the register at St. Peter's Prestbury for you to see who the witnesses were.  If you put up a separate post requesting this, there might be someone able to do it for you.
I come from Cheshire, not far from Prestbury, but now live in Lincoln, otherwise I would have done it for you.

Regarding the two deaths.  I originally got them from FreeBMD where they give no ages.
I've just looked on CheshireBMD and there are two in 1839 one in Gawsworth (covered by Macc Registry) the other in Macclesfield West.  Unfortunately the ages of the two are
74 for Gawsworth and 84 for Macclesfield.  I do apologise if these are the same two deaths.  I should have double checked last night. 
However, I will keep looking for you to see if I can find your Samuel elsewhere.

Did you notice that there is an Ann Mottershead also in the Macc Union workhouse on the same page as Sarah Shaw?
Could just be a coincidence, but something else to think about  ::)

What happened to Sarah and James Shaw do you know?  Have you found them on the 1851?  Did Sarah follow Nathaniel out to Australia or did she stay in UK?  Do you know anything about her that might be helpful?

Kind regards
Su
Barnett Altrincham/Manchester
Bates Hindley Lancs
Bowyer Altrincham Cheshire
Cunliffe Hindley
Hollingworth Hale Barnes/Mobberley Ches
Jones Salford/Altrincham
Ramsdale Hindley Lancs
Timperley Warburton/Dunham Massey
Yarwood Great Budworth,Lymm,Dumham Massey

All Census look up transcriptions are Crown Copyright

Offline shaw54

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Re: Shaw - brick wall - advice and look up - *COMPLETED*
« Reply #7 on: Friday 31 July 09 06:38 BST (UK) »
Hi there Su,

thanks for the tip about Ann Mottershead.  i haven't had an opportunity to follow this through yet but will do so soon.  Thanks also for the update on the 2 deaths.  Re: your query on what happened to Sarah and James, it's been awhile since i looked at the 1851 but from memory I couldn't find either of them, or at least pin down people who might match.  I have assumed that James may have died before 1851.  I should have a go at tracking that through Cheshire BMD.  Sarah also seems to disappear but that might be due to a re-marriage because some info i received from parkhurst records seems to indicate that sometime between 1844 and 1847, Nathaniel's mother's name is said to be Sarah Hodgkinson.  Again I've never been able to follow that through.  Sarah definitiely did not follow Nathaniel out to Australia.

Thanks for all your help.  It might get boring hearing thanks all the time but as I;ve said before it is really very hard to track family from Australia.

kind reards

Steve S.

Offline BAC3

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Re: Shaw - brick wall - advice and look up - *COMPLETED*
« Reply #8 on: Thursday 04 August 11 20:40 BST (UK) »
Hello Steve,

Nathaniel SHAW, as you mention,was a Parkhurst Boy and one of the 4,000 that I am researching for a PhD at Southampton University.   I have something of a Biography for him but only the briefest detail after he completed his servitude in WA.

Would you be able to help fill some gaps about his family life?   I would be very grateful.

My regards

Tony Cocks