Author Topic: Lloyd London Mystery  (Read 79329 times)

Offline MonicaL

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Re: Lloyd London Mystery
« Reply #270 on: Thursday 19 January 12 09:05 GMT (UK) »
Talking about children being born out of marriage etc....

Leaving aside the Lloyds for a moment  ::), there is always the possibility that Elizabeth Collins was an illegitimate daughter of JB. We know nothing about her. Might explain better why she features at all on the will with her son JBL. Could also make some sense of why JBL referred to 'the revisionary interest from the £1200 from his grandfathers will'. The grandfather need not be a LLoyd or a Collins....

Andria, did the family pedigree info you got Paul support JB being born in the 1740s? We have a potential reference in google books to JB's death in 1817, aged 71 here www.rootschat.com/links/0jvb/ (link shrunk).

Monica
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Offline fallingonabruise

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Re: Lloyd London Mystery
« Reply #271 on: Thursday 19 January 12 10:37 GMT (UK) »
Just a point re the JB legacies. Elizabeth only got the use of the 1200pounds for her life and upon her decease it was to pass to her son JBL along with other legacies for JBL.
As you say "JBL says he is due revisionary interest from the £1200 from his grandfathers will ".
As we know Benjamin Lloyd of Hanley Castle did not die until 1834 aged 90years so cant be the grandfather in question.
Tony

JBL said this in 1855,  (his mother had died in 1844)

or he could have said Godfather ??
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Offline fallingonabruise

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Re: Lloyd London Mystery
« Reply #272 on: Thursday 19 January 12 10:41 GMT (UK) »


Andria, did the family pedigree info you got Paul support JB being born in the 1740s? We have a potential reference in google books to JB's death in 1817, aged 71 here www.rootschat.com/links/0jvb/ (link shrunk).

Monica

Paul hadn't put a death date in but Tony had a ref to JB dying
Ballard John 10/07/1817 72 Wick Worcestershire Mayor of Worcester
and this ties in with his will being proved in august 1817
Lloyd in london, Jelfs, Cheatham, Taylor, Raistrick, Knowles, Cassidy, Blackburn, Corns, Gallagher

Offline fallingonabruise

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Re: Lloyd London Mystery
« Reply #273 on: Thursday 19 January 12 10:45 GMT (UK) »
Funny you should say that as Mrs Harris's son John Byron was actually John Ballard Byron!

Re the religion. If JBL's father was a Presbytarian then it would appear that it was not a Hanley Castle Lloyd related to my lot as they were all baptists!
Tony


This was from the newspaper report 36 years after the event , maybe Joshua Evans got his religeons mixed up, plus we can only go by what the reporters thought they heard ????
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Offline MonicaL

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Re: Lloyd London Mystery
« Reply #274 on: Thursday 19 January 12 11:48 GMT (UK) »
How baptist were they though  :-\

If we are now happy that Joseph Lloyd (with or without the Lyon in the middle!) was son of Bejamin and Sophia (Smith), and together with second wife Sophia Eleanor had their children christened in London at:

St Martin in the Fields, Westminster
Christ Church, Southwark
St Luke, Finsbury

I am rubbish at religious denominations  :P, but I am sure these are stardard Church of England churches.
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Offline TTT

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Re: Lloyd London Mystery
« Reply #275 on: Thursday 19 January 12 18:37 GMT (UK) »
I had John Ballard born in 1752 and his brother Philip in 1755 both sons of John B and Margaret Dowding.
I agree that Elizabeth Collins could be the illigitimate dau of John Ballard. It could follow then that Mrs Harris is likewise!
I rather think that JBL was bought up to believe that JB was his grandfather to save everyones face but I reserve final judgement until I can find a Will that supports the 1200 pounds originating from JB's father or JBL's maternal grandfather.
In my view it is likely that JB as mayor of Worcester was a self made man and generated the wealth not his father.

Tony

Offline fallingonabruise

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Re: Lloyd London Mystery
« Reply #276 on: Thursday 19 January 12 18:59 GMT (UK) »
just a quicky, John B(senior) who was married to Margaret Dowding died in 1753 so couldn't have had Phillip if he was born in 1755
going by all the other evidence JB was born 1745
and it was JB(senior) who bought the Lower Court Manor that he passed on to JB
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Offline MonicaL

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Re: Lloyd London Mystery
« Reply #277 on: Thursday 19 January 12 19:08 GMT (UK) »
Hi Tony  :)

This is the line I think we have been looking for the Ballards (from Suckley/Suckly), for John Ballard and wife Hanna(h):

http://www.paul-ballard.com/pedigrees/ui26.htm#a20
http://www.paul-ballard.com/pedigrees/p30.htm#i16496
http://members.multimania.co.uk/AdrianBallard/WORCESTERSHIRE_wills.htm  (likely Will entry for other brother Richard).

Funny story here on Wills relating to wills & things (and making sure you are always nice and polite  ;D):

When John Ballard, who bought, Lower Court and Philip Ballard, who inherited the Berrow were paying a call on their father John Ballard, husband of Hanna,  the old man caught sight in a mirror of Philip grimacing to his brother about his father,  forthwith brother John Ballard received the lions share of the properties.  Whether this is true or not, when John, son of the above died, his will provided for a thousand pounds to be given to his kinsman at the Berrow.

http://members.multimania.co.uk/AdrianBallard/HEREFORDSHIRE_ballard4.htm

This Ballard line look to have been noted members of the local community. Land/property owners and engaged in all kinds of enterprise.

Monica  :)

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Offline fallingonabruise

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Re: Lloyd London Mystery
« Reply #278 on: Tuesday 24 January 12 21:38 GMT (UK) »
just had a reply on the Worcs forum here,  Nemo very kindly had a look for us,


Hi
I checked out the marriage of Benjamin Lloyd to Elizabeth Collins. It didn’t take place at St Michaels, but at Worcester, St Nicholas! They were both “of this parish” and the witnesses were “Saml Higgins” and “J H Smith”.

The couple married by licence, so I had a look at that.

“5th May 1802 Appeared personally Benjamin Lloyd of the parish of St Nicholas in the City and Diocese of Worcester Gent”. The other man who appeared with Benjamin was John Smith of “St Swithins in the same city Draper”. (He’s probably the J H Smith, who was a witness at the marriage)
Benjamin was bachelor and  Elizabeth a spinster. Both he and Elizabeth were aged “twenty one years and upwards” and that’s about it.

I also checked John Ballard Lloyd’s baptism, but that just gave the date and parents names. Sorry there wasn’t time to check for siblings.

Nemo

get googling !!
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