Author Topic: Can anyone help with my Owens of Llandysiliogogo?  (Read 3455 times)

Offline suitcase

  • RootsChat Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 125
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Can anyone help with my Owens of Llandysiliogogo?
« on: Thursday 06 August 09 21:11 BST (UK) »
Hi all,

Hoping you can help with a bit of a brick wall I seem to have reached  :)

My aunt did some research into the family tree and passed on her notes to me. From these notes, my great great grandfather was Owen Owens, born in about 1833 in Llanllwchaiaern, died January 1880 in a pit accident at Dowlais Colliery.
He married Mary (surname unknown - have not found marriage yet - assume around 1857 as first child born around 1858) and had 8 children. Mary died in 1904 and is buried at Capel Wig nr Llangranog
According to my aunt, Owen is also buried there, but I could not find his gravestone when I visited...

On the 1871 census, Owen and Mary are living at Brynsoden, Llanllwchaiaern with their children Ellen, James (my great grandfather), David and Catherine.

So far so good apart from the missing gravestone....

My aunt then has Owen's parents listed as Cathrine and Owen Owens. These two are buried at Capel Wig and I have found what I am pretty sure is them in the following census (gravestone makes reference to Benpark, Lllandissiliogogo so it fits):

1841 Llandisilio Gogo
Owen and Cathrine both aged 40, Margaret 16, Jane 14, Thomas 13, John 2, Elizabeth 6 months

1851 Ben Park, Llandisiliogogo
Owen and Cathrine both aged 53
Children: Jane 26, Thomas 24, John 12, Elizabeth 9
Grandson (assume this is Margaret's son) Owen Evans 5

1871 Llandisiliogogo
Cathrine Owens 72
Grand dau Cathrine Evans aged 20

Can't find them in 1861.

So here is the mystery: if Owen Jnr is the son of Owen Snr & Cathrine, then why does he not appear on any of the census? In 1841 he would have been 8 so surely too young to be away from home?

I can't find Owen Jnr in 1861 either - is the Llandissilio census perhaps missing/incomplete for 1861?

Not really sure where to go now in order to either prove or disprove that Owen Jnr's parents were Owen and Cathrine and to make some progress

All thoughts/assistance most welcome
Thank you!
Suitcase






RICHARD, RICHARDS, OWEN, ROACH - Pembrokeshire.
PORTER, HARRISON, BAINES, LANDRUM, GARDNER, BUTTERWORTH, FOX - Preston/Bolton, Lancs
OWEN/OWENS, JAMES - Cardiganshire
GRACE, HERBERT, LAWSON, BILLINGHAM, STRINGER, SINFIELD - Bedfordshire
TEDDER, NIGHTINGALE, SIMMONDS/SYMONDS - Windsor/London

RootsChat is the busiest, largest free family history forum site in the country. It is completely free to use. Register now.
Also register instantly with Facebook or Twitter (and other social networks). Start your genealogy search now.


Offline osprey

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 9,251
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Can anyone help with my Owens of Llandysiliogogo?
« Reply #1 on: Saturday 08 August 09 20:39 BST (UK) »
Did the notes include certificates? If not, your best bet would be to get some now. If you're confident about the rest of the research, a good starting point would be a birth certificate for your great grandfather or one of his siblings

James Owens june qtr 1863 Aberayron vol 11b pg 43
Catherine Owens march qtr 1869 Aberayron vol 11b pg 50

A birth cert would give you the mother's maiden name so you can search for the marriage. The marriage cert would give you names & occupations of both fathers.

Given that the marriage is quite often in the parish of the bride
Owen Owens march qtr 1855 Newcastle Emlyn vol 11b pg 44 with Mary Jones on the same page

I wouldn't worry about the lack of a gravestone. A burial in a particular place doesn't mean there must be a stone. The price of a stone may have been out of the question for the family at the time.

There are parts of the 1861 census that are missing or imcomplete and Llandisilio is one of the incomplete ones.

 :-\
Cornwall: Allen, Bevan, Bosisto, Carnpezzack, Donithorn, Huddy, James, Retallack, Russell, Vincent, Yeoman
Cards: Thomas (Llanbadarn Fawr)
Glam: Bowler, Cram, Galloway, James, Thomas, Watkins
Lincs: Coupland, Cram
Mon: Cram, Gwyn, John, Philpot, Smart, Watkins
Pembs: Edwards (St. Dogmael's)
Yorks: Airey, Bowler, Elliott, Hare, Hewitt, Kellett, Kemp, Stephenson, Tebb

RootsChat is the busiest, largest free family history forum site in the country. It is completely free to use. Register now.
Also register instantly with Facebook or Twitter (and other social networks). Start your genealogy search now.


Offline suitcase

  • RootsChat Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 125
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Can anyone help with my Owens of Llandysiliogogo?
« Reply #2 on: Saturday 08 August 09 20:57 BST (UK) »
Thanks Osprey

Thought there must be an issue with the 1861 census as there are several family members I couldn't find who were almost certainly in Llandisilio

My aunt didn't have any certificates at all, so that's my next step I guess....I've been trying to get the notes into some sort of sensible order first, and to see what I could find on Ancestry (since I have a subscription so all included/free) before I start paying for certificates.

What I am concerned about is that Owen Jnr is not on the census with the rest of the family in 1871 (and he would only have been 8 so not really old enough to be working away?) and because his birth is ca 1833 I can't find a record of it (doesn't seem to be on IGI for Llanllwchaiaern). Which makes me wonder if he is actually Owen (snr) and Catherine's son or not....

Will continue working through the notes etc and see what I can come up with, thanks for your help in the meantime,
Suitcase
RICHARD, RICHARDS, OWEN, ROACH - Pembrokeshire.
PORTER, HARRISON, BAINES, LANDRUM, GARDNER, BUTTERWORTH, FOX - Preston/Bolton, Lancs
OWEN/OWENS, JAMES - Cardiganshire
GRACE, HERBERT, LAWSON, BILLINGHAM, STRINGER, SINFIELD - Bedfordshire
TEDDER, NIGHTINGALE, SIMMONDS/SYMONDS - Windsor/London

Offline osprey

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 9,251
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Can anyone help with my Owens of Llandysiliogogo?
« Reply #3 on: Saturday 08 August 09 21:30 BST (UK) »
always possible that they were non-conformist so baptism wasn't in parish church.

http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/CGN/Llanllwchaearn/Chapels.html

Hmm, not sure about the 8 yr old. He could have been a farm servant or similar at that age.  It's not beyond the bounds of possibility. He could have been living with/working for a relative.   

Think the certs would be a good move as then you'd know which father you're looking for.

 ;)
Cornwall: Allen, Bevan, Bosisto, Carnpezzack, Donithorn, Huddy, James, Retallack, Russell, Vincent, Yeoman
Cards: Thomas (Llanbadarn Fawr)
Glam: Bowler, Cram, Galloway, James, Thomas, Watkins
Lincs: Coupland, Cram
Mon: Cram, Gwyn, John, Philpot, Smart, Watkins
Pembs: Edwards (St. Dogmael's)
Yorks: Airey, Bowler, Elliott, Hare, Hewitt, Kellett, Kemp, Stephenson, Tebb

Offline suitcase

  • RootsChat Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 125
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: UPDATE!! Can anyone help with my Owens of Llandysiliogogo?
« Reply #4 on: Thursday 20 May 10 22:01 BST (UK) »
Well, I ordered birth certificates for James and two of his siblings: Catherine and Sarah.

James born 1863, mother's maiden name Mary Davies. Catherine born 1869, mother's maiden name Mary Jones. Sarah born 1871 mother's maiden name Mary Davies

Interestingly James and Sarah's certificates show Mary's mark/signature, whereas Catherine's shows Owen's...could it be that he didn't know his wife's maiden name and said Jones in error? Can't be two different wives as Catherine born inbetween James and Sarah....

Next problem is I simply can't find a marriage for Owen and Sarah. I ordered the one for Owen Owens in 1855 as suggested by Osprey below but got the money re-funded as they said the details don't match - so that can't have been the right one

So I'm still stuck - without the marriage cert I can't prove (or not) whether Owen was the son of Owen Snr or not

Any suggestions? Anyone who is local who can check Parish records for Owen Owen and Mary Davies (or Jones?) marriage?

Thanks!
Suitcase
RICHARD, RICHARDS, OWEN, ROACH - Pembrokeshire.
PORTER, HARRISON, BAINES, LANDRUM, GARDNER, BUTTERWORTH, FOX - Preston/Bolton, Lancs
OWEN/OWENS, JAMES - Cardiganshire
GRACE, HERBERT, LAWSON, BILLINGHAM, STRINGER, SINFIELD - Bedfordshire
TEDDER, NIGHTINGALE, SIMMONDS/SYMONDS - Windsor/London

Offline Cjdavies49

  • RootsChat Pioneer
  • *
  • Posts: 1
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Can anyone help with my Owens of Llandysiliogogo?
« Reply #5 on: Tuesday 06 September 16 02:01 BST (UK) »
Dear Sir/Madam,

If you are searching for members of the Owen family from Llangrannog that owned 3 shipping companies prior to coal depression then looking no further as you are referring to my great-great-grandparents.

I have a full family tree for the Owens side of the family that once produced by a relative. Unfortunately we lost my grandmother this year so any info past this family tree book I cannot help sorry, but it does go into Rebecca Riots era.