a curly one completed thanks to all

[Canterburynorth]

Hi all,

I am trying to find out about my Grandfather James KIDD born 13 october 1903 in 24 Moss Street Banffshire Scotland.

I have an old copy of a birth certificate which has his mother as Mary Grant or Kidd. I dont understand why she would have one name or another,  it also says she is the widow of William Kidd a butcher,  William died three years before my grandfather was boren

I wonder could it be possible he is one of his sisters children, but i have no idea if he had brithers and sisters as he never talked of his family.

I expect I will never know who is father was but any information out there would be amazing.

Thanks for reading

[AMBLY]

Hi Lean

He certainley had a number of half siblings, as shown in the 1901 and 1891 Census.....

1901: 124 Moss Street, Keith, Banffshire
Parish: 159, ED 3 , pg 28
Head: Mary J KIDD 58 (sic)  General Domestic worker, Roathven, Banffshire
Dau: Mary A KIDD 13, Scholar, b Keith
Dau: Willamina KIDD 11, Scholar, b Keith
Son: William B KIDD 9, Scholar, b Keith
Dau: Elizabeth KIDD 7, Scholar, b Keith
Son: Robert KIDD 5, Scholar, b Keith
Dau: Jane KIDD 1, b Keith

Mary J's age is likely to be 38 on the original image. In 1891 she is 29.
If you don't already have these Census, I'll type out the 1891 also.

It's possible she was living with a GRANT in a state of marriage, and was commonly know by that surname though it was not her 'legal' name.  If her maiden name turns out to not be GRANT, I would then suspect GRANT is the surname of James father.

Does the birth certificate just say: "Mary Grant or Kidd"  ? Does it also state, as it should, her maiden surname and using those words "maiden surname" or "MS" ?

Cheers
AMBLY

[AMBLY]

It does look like Mary's maiden name was indeed GRANT.

In Scotland women's maiden names were given much more  recognition and importance.
The deaths of Married or widowed women are indexed with both their name at death and their maiden name.
The Census might  show them with their maiden name, even while they are living with their husband and more often, after they have been widowed.  Their headstones, will often (generally?)  be in their maiden name, and then followed by mention of her husband and his surname.

1891: 53 Land Street, Keith, Banff
Head: William KIDD 34, Butcher, b Keith
Wife: Mary KIDD 29, b Rathven, Banff
Son: George KIDD 3?, Scholar, b Keith (suspect his age is NOT 3! possibly age 8.  )
Dau: Margaret KIDD 6, Scholar, b Keith
Dau: Mary A KIDD 3, b Keith
Dau: Williamina KIDD 1, b Keith

IGI:
Birth: Mary Jessie GRANT b 26 Feb 1862, Rathven, Banff
Father: ALexander GRANT
Mother: Janet JAMIESON

Scotlands People (SP) :
http://www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk/
Marriage: 1882 in Rathven, Banff
William KIDD and Mary Jessie GRANT

(It was usual to marry in the parish of the bride)

Under the circumstances, it's a pity, that her MS was  Grant 

I still don't understand why if James birth cert said his mother was, literally : "Mary Grant or Kidd." but  Maybe it was the fact she was a widow and mother of a child born 3 ys after she was widowed that caused the registrar to write it so?

Can't see any marriage after 1901 for a Mary Jessie KIDD in Banff - possibly she never remarried:

DEATH SP: Mary Jessie KIDD / other surname GRANT'
died 1921 in Keith, age 59

This death certificate might be important, for example  if the name of the informant is a man to whom you have no known connection......

It is also possible, in theory  - as you wondered - that James was the illigitimate child of one of his older sisters.
Certainley not unheard of for illigitimate children to be passed off as children of their grandparents - in the Census at least (and I'm sure in more that one or two birth certifictates where no-one is any the wiser to this very day!).

However....in your case, I'd be more inclined to think not.  Mary Jessie herself was a widow and by registering James in her own parish under her legal names with it patently clear that  the baby  cannot have been concieved from her marriage (ie: no subterfuge there), she therefore illigitimises James.    I guess she may have been wiling to fall on that sword in order to save, more importantly to her,  the reputation of an unmarried daughter - but probably not (or if so, probably never discoverable).


Cheers
AMBLY

[andycand]

Hi

It might be worth checking the marriage certificate for James particularly if he married in Scotland. Ive got a couple in my tree where the reputed father is named.

Andy

[Canterburynorth]

Hello ambly,

Gosh i cannot believe how much information you have given me, its incredible I  cant thank you enough, it certanily gives me such alot to go on for the other siblings.  thankyou for taking so much trouble
 
Thank you andy to, unfortunatly James married here in new zealand and the space is blank under fathers name.

Leandra

[grannyfiona]

Hi Leandra

I too am related to this Kidd family but do not have the information to hand.  I will get back to you as soon as I can find it.

Grannyfiona

[grannyfiona]

Hi Leandra

Mother Mary J - is Mary Jessie and her parents married on February 7, 1846 in Buckie

Her death notice in the local paper stated she was the widow of William Russell Kidd and was deeply mourned so she definitely did not remarry.

William was buried with Military Honours.

Mary A - is Mary Ann
George is - George Alexander and he was definitely born in March 1, 1883
Margaret - was known as Maggie Jessie
Jane - was know as Jeanie

In addition to those children listed I also have a Janet Kidd born October 6, 1897.

I think I may have some other information elsewhere which I will check out. 

Grannyfiona

[winston]

Hi

Death cert of Mary Jessie Kidd states her as being the widow of one William Kidd Butcher Deceased

Daughter of Alexander Grant and Janet Jamieson both deceased

Her son George Kidd registered the death.


Wendy

[Canterburynorth]

Hi Wendy,

Thankyou, you are very kind .

I wonder did you happen across what Marys husband died of?  He was very young only 43.

Cheers

Leandra