Author Topic: Certificate Problems  (Read 3269 times)

Offline Llwyd

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Certificate Problems
« on: Wednesday 02 March 05 16:06 GMT (UK) »
I hope this isn't too lengthy but here goes......................
I have some doubts over some parts of my research and whether or not I have obtained the correct birth and marriage certificates.
The majority of the documentation I have in respect of my GGF,John HUMPHREYS,indicates a d.o.b. of 1844/45 in Newtown.These include census checks,what I believe to be his police service record and a marriage certificate.
The 1871 census states 26yrs,the 1881 37yrs,the 1891 47yrs and the 1901 56yrs.The police service record,which shows he joined in Sept 1867, states 23yrs and a marriage cert,dated Feb 1869, states 24yrs.
Yet when I applied to the GRO for a birth cert,possibly with too little detail in view of the frequency with which the name John HUMPHREYS occurs,with the details I had,i.e. the name,place of birth and the three year period,they were unable to find a certificate.
Through the FreeBMD site I found the wedding of a John HUMPHREYS to a Margaret THOMAS,this being the same name as my GGM,and thus,having obtained this certificate,I was in possession of his father's name,i.e. David HUMPHREYS.This,unfortunately,did not assist the GRO and led to another negative reply from them.
Next,an 1851 census check,using the information I had, revealed a John HUMPHREYS,8yrs old with a father named David,living in Upper Green, Newtown.I did not carry out this check,but I was informed that this was the only John HUMPHREYS who could be the one I was looking for. Furthermore,because his maternal Grandfather was also resident I had his mother's name.Success at the GRO.They sent me a birt cert dated Sept 1842 for John HUMPHREYS.
Now,to the marriage cert problems;although the pros outweigh the cons, I have some doubts about this also.
The pros being that GGF,John HUMPHREYS,did marry a Margaret THOMAS from Llanidloes,the wedding took place in the Baptist Chapel,Llanidloes and my ancestors were Baptists,the wedding took place in Feb 1869 and the first child of my GGP's was born in Jan,1870 and the age of Margaret THOMAS is in line with that shown for her on censuses.
The cons being the stated age of John HUMPHREYS is 24yrs and his stated occupation is that of butcher,when it is apparent he was a policeman,as stated above,and as per 1871 census check of Llanidloes.
I have carried out further checks of the 1881(LDS website) and 1901 censuses,together with further FreeBMD checks, and I cannot find any other John and Margaret HUMPHREYS who could possibly correspond to my GGP's.Other GRO checks, using FreeBMD references, have also proved negative.
However,my doubts ??? still remain and I wonder if I have the correct certificates.Are such anomalies normal in family history research?.
Any advice or assistance would be greatlt appreciated. :)
Humphreys; originating in Montgomeryshire and spreading out locally, nationally and internationally.

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Offline davierj

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Re: Certificate Problems
« Reply #1 on: Tuesday 12 April 05 17:30 BST (UK) »
Hi,
i was reading the story of your trials and tribulations with the Humphreys family, when I suddenly realised that I had been researching the same family.   I have not sent for certificates etc because the family is not in direct line.   John Humphreys (Police Constable No 4) is my nephew's 2nd GGfather.   His ancestry goes back via John's son Evan Henry Humphries.
I have traced the family back to Evan Humphries b.abt 1763 at Manafon, Montgomeryshire.
As to your query as to anomalies - in my experience yes, although in your case I can't see why as it would appear that John Humphreys did in fact marry Margaret Thomas early 1869.   
When looking at the parentage of one Jonathan Jones of Carno I received a birth certificate correctly giving his father's name as William but occupation SAILOR - in Montgomeryshire?   I knew he was a Tailor and when I asked for a photocopy rather than a transcription it was obvious the capital T looked like an S.   Although how they can confuse Constable with Butcher is beyond me.   I must say I found the staff at the Registrar's Office very helpful and they saw the funny side of it too.
Sorry to go on but I would be interested to know how you fit into the Humphreys family.   Good luck in your researches.
Cheers Dave
Census information is Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk<br /><br />Research:   <br />Clements, Jenkins, Jones, Williams, Davies, Renfrey in Cardiganshire.   <br />Trow, Jones, Clayton in Montgomeryshire.  <br />Renfrey, Datsun, May, Stephens in Cornwall<br />Foster  in Liverpool <br />Milliner, Fry, in Gloucestershire<br />Mawby, Popple in Rutland<br />Kent, Fry, Robinson, Nott, Griffiths in Somerset<br />Willis in Oxfordshire<br />Fishlock, Snell, Fry, in Wiltshire

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Offline Llwyd

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Re: Certificate Problems
« Reply #2 on: Wednesday 13 April 05 16:05 BST (UK) »
Hi there Dave,
Somewhat of a shock this,I've actually found someone researching the same family :) :) :) :).
I'll send you a PM with my telephone number/e-mail address and should you so wish,you can contact me.
John Humphreys,Police Constable,is my paternal GGrandfather and his son,Evan Henry,is my paternal Grandfather.
Humphreys; originating in Montgomeryshire and spreading out locally, nationally and internationally.

Offline davierj

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Re: Certificate Problems
« Reply #3 on: Wednesday 13 April 05 18:03 BST (UK) »
Hi, I was quite surprised too.   It's a cousin of mine that's related to Evan Henry not a nephew as I said!   I believe Evan was a Station Master.   Was this at Aberystwyth - certainly he lived at 13 Fifth Ave, Penparcau, Aber at the time of his death in Bronglais Hospital, 14 May 1959.   
Evan's daughter, Florence Ena, married Richard Trefor Jones who was one of my father's older brothers.
Hope to get in touch.   (Pardon my ignorance - what's a PM)?
Cheers Dave
Census information is Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk<br /><br />Research:   <br />Clements, Jenkins, Jones, Williams, Davies, Renfrey in Cardiganshire.   <br />Trow, Jones, Clayton in Montgomeryshire.  <br />Renfrey, Datsun, May, Stephens in Cornwall<br />Foster  in Liverpool <br />Milliner, Fry, in Gloucestershire<br />Mawby, Popple in Rutland<br />Kent, Fry, Robinson, Nott, Griffiths in Somerset<br />Willis in Oxfordshire<br />Fishlock, Snell, Fry, in Wiltshire

Offline Llwyd

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Re: Certificate Problems
« Reply #4 on: Saturday 16 April 05 13:12 BST (UK) »
Now we have corresponded via E-mail we have decided that we are not researching the same family.So,if anyone out there is looking at this family.............
Humphreys; originating in Montgomeryshire and spreading out locally, nationally and internationally.